Another Cease and Desist Letter: 4E Powercards

[BASHMAN]

They certainly have the “legal right” to go after anyone so much as saying the words “Dungeons & Dragons” on their site. But the point of the gaming community is to let people use that IP to advance the game. Rouse says “Oh, you know, we only really care about pirate sites posting whole torrents of our books.” But that’s clearly a lie in the face of this action. And he crosses the line from honest company rep to corporate shill when he says things like “not one website has been sued because of a lack of policy” (emphasis mine). No, you don’t have to sue them, they close down when you C&D them because they can’t afford the lawyers you can, and they are risking their own personal money, time, and life while you get to hide behind incorporation and an organization.

quoted from this site following the Ema's shutdown: Will WotC Close You Down Next? « Geek Related

 

[Bladewing]

Ok I started reading this thread but the discussion turned into (imho) pointless legal debate, so I skipped a dozen pages. Sorry if this is a repeat question because of that.

Is a version that keeps the layout and design but doesnt actually list the copyrighted content from the sourcebooks available, where you can enter power names and game text on your own and then print it?

I used the power cards from that site because I liked the design. That they already included the relevant rules text was an obvious time saver, but I'd be fine with typing them myself for the cards I want to use while playing. and I'm assuming distributing such a file without the rules text would be legal (correct me if that's wrong).


I also have a related question about WotC's planned official power cards:

1. How do they look? You see, the main advantage of the site that received the cease and desist was the awesome design of the cards. Certainly much better then those made with the character builder beta and also edging out other 3rd party versions I found. I have no problem buying the official power card decks if they are well designed and look great.

2. Do they come with a pdf to print them with appropriate attribute/feat/etc modifiers factored in? If I have to do the math each time or keep additional notes on another card and/or reference my character sheet, they arent nearly as useful as the material provided by 3rd party sites up to now.

 

[Jack99]

Anybody?

here

 

[misalo1]

Yes, but will you buy the power cards when they are released?

My vote... No

If they are like the books and DM's screen I'll have a set of cards with all the WotC Error's included and no way to correct the cards.

I made my own cards and when a update hits WotC.com I fix and print. No errors, No 'Updated Card List' to check during play. No Fuss.

Anyways the price isn't in my budget...

PHB - $23.00 + PHB Power Card Display - $57.00 = $80.00 (give or take some pennies)

Martial Power - $20.00 + Power Card Packs x4 - 9.99 x 4 = $60.00

So $43.00 vs. $140.00

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

It's far easier to stoke the fires of suspicion with conspiracy theories about evil intent.

The pursuit of profit is evil.

If WOTC continues its evil corporate pursuit of profit, I mean, where does that leave all the fans who enjoy popping online to offer "Best Wishes" to all the great designers that Hasbro lays off every Christmas?

 

[Oldtimer]

In the world of copyright law it does not matter if it is a criminal or a civil suit, it must be upheld as a local person in the country would be protected/sued if the country has signed onto the Berne Convention.

Thus if you are in Sweden with a great website with all the Ritual texts on it because you are printing out Ritual cards and the owner of the Ritual text is in the US then if you refused to comply with a C&D letter the US can then make a petition to the Swedish law courts as if they were Swedish Copyright Holders.

In quick easy terms, you are treated as a citizen of that nation with regards to copyright and that country must uphold your copyright just as they would for one of their own.

Yes, this I know and understand fully. If I took over 4epowercards.com and put it up on my server, WotC would have to bring the issue to swedish courts and the issue would be evaluated under swedish copyright laws as if WotC had been a swedish company. No problem with this.

As to the difference between civil and criminal copyright law. A criminal offence is generally a misrepresentation of the imprint of the material you originally copyrighted. For example, putting the WoTC logo on a record sheet of your own making and selling your efforts. This indirectly implies that you are a WoTC representative or that your work has somehow been approved by them.

And technically saying T infringes their copyright because you are mutilating/altering the seal/imprint of a company. Lucky for us it isn't their original logo we are doing it to

This kind of case came up with Judges Guild in TSR days if I remember correctly. They were using the TSR logo which implied sanctioned material but it wasn't so.

This makes no sense to me at all. You are talking about misuse of trademark, not criminal copyright infringement.

If US copyright law is this much different, american companies would be very confused if they actually had to go to court against a swedish (or other european) web site. It makes me wonder what would have happened if Ema had just said "no" to WotC, since he was in italian jurisdiction.

Anyway, don't let me derail this thread further. Please return to your regular scheduled discussion.

 

[catsclaw227]

quoted from this site following the Ema's shutdown: Will WotC Close You Down Next? « Geek Related

Yes, but this blog is heavily biased and admitted so by the writer. And BTW, Scott Rouse didn't say what mxyzplk quoted him saying. I haven't found one post anywhere where he said “Oh, you know, we only really care about pirate sites posting whole torrents of our books.” As a matter of fact, the statement I believe he was referring to was more akin to saying that, at the time of the quote, they were focusing efforts on a particular site that had a ton of pirated downloads available. When mxyzplk can point us to where he got his quote, I will apologize and move on, but it is simply just pouring gasoline on a fire that is already heating up.

 

[Imaro]

My vote... No

If they are like the books and DM's screen I'll have a set of cards with all the WotC Error's included and no way to correct the cards.

I made my own cards and when a update hits WotC.com I fix and print. No errors, No 'Updated Card List' to check during play. No Fuss.

Anyways the price isn't in my budget...

PHB - $23.00 + PHB Power Card Display - $57.00 = $80.00 (give or take some pennies)

Martial Power - $20.00 + Power Card Packs x4 - 9.99 x 4 = $60.00

So $43.00 vs. $140.00

QFT, I'm so glad I took the time to download and learn how to use the MSE. I spend enough on dungeon tiles, and miniatures (which can at least be used with other fantasy games besides 4e) as accessories to D&D (3.5 and 4e) that I'm just not cool with buying another (mainly useless outside of 4e) accessory to play a roleplaying game. I'll be making my own cards from here on out.

 

[mxyzplk]

Anybody?

I link to all the relevant threads and original sources here: Will WotC Close You Down Next? « Geek Related

My post is clearly biased, however. (Truth is a labelled bias nowadays.) Take it with a grain of salt, but use the links and judge for yourself.

 

[catsclaw227]

But see, even then, there's no implication that they didn't have plans to send C&D to blatant disgregard for IP. He says that they are dealing with huge sharing sites and at the time of the quote, they don't care about someone posting his homebrew.

Neither Ema nor 4epowerscards were simply guys posting their homebrew. The two concepts are wildly far apart. WOTC isn't going to take down Urbis. They sent C&D's to sites wholesale copying their IP and providing it for free.

So the quote was taken way out of context with regards to the sites that received a C&D. It reminds me of Michael Moore's tactics, which he readily admits is manipulative and intended to create a false association between two unrelated clips.