Another Cease and Desist Letter: 4E Powercards

[Brown Jenkin]

I was the custodian of the OGL over the middle of 3rd edition's lifecycle, and I contest this statement. Certainly, opinions varied among individuals within the organization, as they will among individuals everywhere (especially gamers!). And, after five or six years' experience with it, the benefit of hindsight gave us many ideas about how we might have implemented it differently. But "fell out of favour" is far too categorical to be accurate, at least up through my tenure.

This sounds to me like it fell out of favor. You say during your time opinions about it varied. You also say that with hindsight how you (plural) might have implemented it differently. It sounds like those with negative opinions eventually won the battle and that the GSL is the result of making the GSL with those changes that some thought were the problems with the OGL. Definitely sounds like the OGL that we had fell out of favor and the GSL is the what the end result is.

 

[xechnao]

This sounds to me like it fell out of favor. You say during your time opinions about it varied. You also say that with hindsight how you (plural) might have implemented it differently. It sounds like those with negative opinions eventually won the battle and that the GSL is the result of making the GSL with those changes that some thought were the problems with the OGL. Definitely sounds like the OGL that we had fell out of favor and the GSL is the what the end result is.

I still fail to see your POV. The market conditions and possibilities are not static. It is a living thing or relationship: things can change as they change in real life. What Wotc has done in each instance could have worked to its advantage. At one instance this was the OGL at another instance its evolution to the GSL.

 

[tomBitonti]

Steve, thanks for the cogent, rational response. That said, I disagree. Scott Rouse has discussed the GSL many times, and made it very clear that he's the one responsible for it, at least at the implementation level. Given no preconceptions, it seems that the default assumption should be that Scott is responsible. I posit that since many people are suspicious of the GSL, they fall back on preconceptions that it was mandated to Scott by some mythical cadre of "suits."

...

I was the custodian of the OGL over the middle of 3rd edition's lifecycle, and I contest this statement. Certainly, opinions varied among individuals within the organization, as they will among individuals everywhere (especially gamers!). And, after five or six years' experience with it, the benefit of hindsight gave us many ideas about how we might have implemented it differently. But "fell out of favour" is far too categorical to be accurate, at least up through my tenure.

I think that whether the GSL was mandated to Scott is the key question, and in a corporation, a "cadre of suits" is not entirely mythical. Lawyers and managers abound. That phrase "mythical cadre of suits" seems to sidestep the key argument with a dismissive turn of phrase.

Also, I imagine that a part of the reasoning for the idea that the OGL fell out of favor was that it was never pursued (very much) beyond the initial implementation. Here I'm taking "falling out of favor" is "not being assigned sufficient resources to keep it lively". Although, from that point of view, I would rather say "never achieved traction".

One should also be careful about saying "implemented it differently" (since there are lots of software folks on this board), and consider that you might mean "set different requirements" (perhaps expressed as outcomes: what is the license intended to achieve?). That will most likely lead to a different implementation, but the phrase "implemented it differently" doesn't convey the same meaning.

I am presuming that when you say "implement it [the OGL] better" (text in brackets added by me), that you are being loose and meaning "implement [a D&D license] better", since the tie between the OGL and the GSL seems mostly to be the "license" part. My presumption is that few view the GSL as a reimplementation of the OGL, but rather, a whole new license.

Thx all for the discussion,

TomB

 

[DaveMage]

I thought my use of "might" and "may" made it clear that I don't know where the "line" is, if indeed there is one. I was simply responding to the positive assertion that the avatar defnitely violates copyright.

Ah. I had hoped you had some relevant information that might clarify the law - didn't realize you were simply offering an opinion.

 

[Nikosandros]

We can't objectively agree that WotC saved D&D as a brand? Really? I mean, love 3E or hate it, D&D was all but dead when WotC bought TSR, wasn't it?

I'm not so sure...

I mean, TSR was in dire financial straits when it was bought by WotC. But I think that D&D was still doing well enough, even though I'm far from certain about it. There were certainly a lot of other factors involved in the demise of TSR, like the commercial failure of Dragon Dice and various and sundry management mistakes.

 

[Dire Bare]

Though it took several days, I made it to the end! I read every post and laughed more than I thought I would. I feel like just climbed a mountain... or swam from Alcatraz to the mainland.

Anyhoo, I should give an opinion or something... otherwise, what was this for?

Let's just say I'm not wearing a tinfoil hat and have no problem with how Wizards of the Coast handled the situation. I mean, after all -- no babies were eaten during the delivery of the Cease and Desist, so thumbs up for that, right?

You deserve XP for all of your hard work! *Edit: Except I can't quite figure out how to do it . . . is the XP feature still working?

However, you should be aware that tinfoil hats are quite in vogue on the internets, and I have it on good authority that after WotC sends you a C&D, they do in fact celebrate afterwards at a local orphanage chowing down on innocent babies!!!! Evil bastards!

 

[Scribble]

I mean, after all -- no babies were eaten during the delivery of the Cease and Desist, so thumbs up for that, right?

All that poves is Wizards is not in fact a Dingo!

 

[Dire Bare]

I'm not so sure...

I mean, TSR was in dire financial straits when it was bought by WotC. But I think that D&D was still doing well enough, even though I'm far from certain about it. There were certainly a lot of other factors involved in the demise of TSR, like the commercial failure of Dragon Dice and various and sundry management mistakes.

It has been a long time, but I'm 98% positive that D&D was no longer being published when WotC bought TSR, for a period of at least several months if not longer. No official, "We're dropping D&D" announcement, but no new books, no new magazines, no nothing for months. Was it D&D's "fault" TSR went under as opposed to other factors? D&D was TSR's flagship product. It kept TSR alive on life support long after they should have gone under due to the terrible mismanagement of the company.

If WotC hadn't stepped up, would someone else have? Perhaps. We'll never know for sure, but I can't think of a gaming company at the time who had deep enough pockets to do so (or even now, for that matter).

I can say with 100% confidence that WotC did indeed save the D&D brand. And if you liked 3rd Edition, then it saved the game too!!

 

[Dire Bare]

This sounds to me like it fell out of favor. You say during your time opinions about it varied. You also say that with hindsight how you (plural) might have implemented it differently. It sounds like those with negative opinions eventually won the battle and that the GSL is the result of making the GSL with those changes that some thought were the problems with the OGL. Definitely sounds like the OGL that we had fell out of favor and the GSL is the what the end result is.

You seem to equate "doing things differently" with "being out of favor". Doubt I'll change your mind with a strange understanding like that, but Charles is quite clearly saying that the overall consensus during his tenure was that OGL/d20 = good, but let's do things somewhat differently when we get the chance.

Saying the OGL was "out of favor" based on Charles posts is just as ridiculous as claiming that 3rd Edition was "out of favor" (which, of course, some angry fans have claimed). It's clear (to me at least) that currently, the overall consensus at WotC is that OGL/d20 = good and D&D 3e = good, but that given the chance they wanted to do some things differently, so GSL = better and D&D 4e = better. Not even remotely "out of favor" or anything of the sort!

 

[Dire Bare]

All that poves is Wizards is not in fact a Dingo!

Sigh. Not all dingoes eat babies. You should know that! Don't tar the entire species with your poorly researched ideas based on rumor and myth!

Brian, Dingo Advocate.