Another Creature Catalog query for Dragon? (Pt 2)

[demiurge1138]

Mole dragons are more like pseudodragons - no age categories. They range from 3-5 HD in the original article, each with more spell-like abilities and better clerical casting. My nomination would be to stat up the meanest version (5 HD, casts as 3rd level cleric, can wall of stone, passwall, stone shape and summon an earth elemental) and call it CR 5 for the time being.

Bionoids should be living constructs. If not, monstrous humanoids with some construct traits.

Spell crystals were eliminated from 3rd Edition because they were weird and made bookkeeping difficult. If we were to reintroduce them, we might want to take a look at the original concept and alter it to keep the flavor (if I remember right, they're made when someone casts a spell on a plane where that magic is impeded, or something like that. Shemeska would be the best person to ask).

Demiurge out.

 

[BOZ]

For the mole dragon, I'd rather set them at the minimum level with the option for HD advancement, like most other creatures have now. They can start off at CR3 for the purposes of the query.

I might just make the bionoids into living constructs, if that would be the most appropriate for them. They can be like worforged, then?

I'll cast "summon Shemeska" to see if he has an opinion on the whole spell crystal issue.


did three more now, all from Planes of Conflict. as always, feel free to comment...

Gautiere
Humanoid (extraplanar)? or Outsider (evil)?, CR 3?
This race of gaunt, grey humanoids hovers on the edge of oblivion, imprisoned on their homeplane. They are the remnants of the Tiere, an ancient race that once lived on the Outlands. In an act of revenge on a god who betrayed them, the tiere were consumed and became the cursed gautiere, forever trapped and subjected to the stinging winds of the layer of Minethys as thay wander the plane of Carceri. They can slash with a clawed hand, or cause a victim's skin to turn to acid with a touch. They have immunity to acid and fire.


(I figured it would make sense to remove the reference to Sung Chiang from these guys, since the Chinese mythos is now totally absent from 3E. They might lose a little bit of flavor, but I think they're cool enough to be without. There may be another option for them, though.)
Linqua
Outsider (evil), CR 2?
Linqua are the servitors of a god of theives from the plane of Gehenna. Short squat humanoids tufted with green hair, they recieve the blessings of their creator in clerical spells, the ability to gain a burst of Strength (rather like the Strength domain power) and sneak attack. Despite their divine origin, linquas often escape the service of their master. These rogue linquas often make for powerful clerics, as they become addicted to the divine energy imbued by serving a god.


Ni'iath
Magical Beast (extraplanar)? or Outsider?, CR 4?
These are long, wormlike creatures with vicious mouths and four narrow eyes spaced equidistantly about their heads. Natives of Bytopia, ni'iaths have a peculiar immunity to gravity and no concept of "up" or "down". They have a barbed tail and a special reverse gravity fling they use to propel opponents into nearby objects. Ni'iaths resemble wolves in mentality, hunting in packs, often tiring prey out before closing to attack.

 

[Shemeska]

Spell crystals were eliminated from 3rd Edition because they were weird and made bookkeeping difficult. If we were to reintroduce them, we might want to take a look at the original concept and alter it to keep the flavor (if I remember right, they're made when someone casts a spell on a plane where that magic is impeded, or something like that. Shemeska would be the best person to ask).

They're one of many awesome bits of flavor that Planescape developed around different kind of magic that while totally awesome, were nightmares once you got into their effects on game mechanics. I tend to ignore much of it when it comes to running any of the numbers, but preserve much of it in the background when I can when it isn't obtrusive (I like to keep the spell alterations by plane from 2e which are more flavorful than the alterations in 3e).

That said, here's the relevant text from the PS campaign setting box:

A minor hazard to planar characters, but a hazard nonetheless, is the occasional spell crystal. These things aren't useful items to adventurers, but are the handiwork of prime-material wizards.

What happens when a wizard summons something from the Outer Planes or communes with a planar being? He doesn't realize it, but the force of his magic creates a whizzing, glowing crystal on the target plane. This crystal shoots across the plane, unerringly searching for the object of its master's spell. Upon reaching its goal, the crystal swoops in and touches the target, releasing its magical energy. If it's a summoning, the target vanishes, instantly drawn to the Prime Material Plane through a magical, temporary vortex. Commune and divination crystals release a flood of insistent imagery that clamors for an answer. The effect depends on the spell cast.

Spell crystals come in a variety of colors and shapes, although all are crystals of some sort. Neither is an indication of the spell carried. However, creatures that have a Wisdom score of 19 or higher can instinctively know the nature of a spell crystal by making a successful Wisdom check (-5 modifier to the ability score).

Wise planars carefully avoid spell crystals. No one wants to be blipped off to some strange prime-material world without preparation or warning, as the chance is too great to take. A few intrepid souls have managed to capture spell crystals; these imprisoned magicks command good prices as curiosities. It's also possible to trap them and use the crystals as weapons by releasing them on enemies. This technique is dangerous not only while catching the crystal, but also because there's no promising who its target will be once a spell crystal is released.

3e doesn't (like with so many things) so much as eliminate spell-crystals as it does completely ignore them and the topic they address. So you could either reintroduce them as an idea, which would be kinda cool, or perhaps say something to the effect of a Demarax in the vicinity of a creature that's the target of a summoning/divination makes the spell manifest in such a way and can intercept it. Something like that.

Bah. Evil good, game mechanics bad.

[This is why I don't submit articles that involve me having to make up new rules. Hehe]

 

[Shemeska]

I'll cast "summon Shemeska" to see if he has an opinion on the whole spell crystal issue.

*appears in a stylish cloud of brimstone*

did three more now, all from Planes of Conflict. as always, feel free to comment...

Gautiere
Humanoid (extraplanar)? or Outsider (evil)?, CR 3?
This race of gaunt, grey humanoids hovers on the edge of oblivion, imprisoned on their homeplane. They are the remnants of the Tiere, an ancient race that once lived on the Outlands. In an act of revenge on a god who betrayed them, the tiere were consumed and became the cursed gautiere, forever trapped and subjected to the stinging winds of the layer of Minethys as thay wander the plane of Carceri. They can slash with a clawed hand, or cause a victim's skin to turn to acid with a touch. They have immunity to acid and fire.

I'd make them outsiders given that they originally lived upon the Outlands and we don't have any notion that they were originally from the prime material; and even if they were, their incarceration in Carceri as well as their act of imprisoning their own deific patron may have physically altered them to becoming much more than mortal [or make them extraplanar humanoids but give them a trait that prevents their being banished from Carceri... no easy way out for them]

(I figured it would make sense to remove the reference to Sung Chiang from these guys, since the Chinese mythos is now totally absent from 3E. They might lose a little bit of flavor, but I think they're cool enough to be without. There may be another option for them, though.)
Linqua
Outsider (evil), CR 2?
Linqua are the servitors of a god of theives from the plane of Gehenna. Short squat humanoids tufted with green hair, they recieve the blessings of their creator in clerical spells, the ability to gain a burst of Strength (rather like the Strength domain power) and sneak attack. Despite their divine origin, linquas often escape the service of their master. These rogue linquas often make for powerful clerics, as they become addicted to the divine energy imbued by serving a god.

Sung Chiang's deific domain in Gehenna, the Teardrop Palace, is actually detailed in the 3e Manual of the Planes. They just weren't allowed to explicitely name Sung Chiang in the description, but it's still there.

And what's more, the Chinese pantheon is all over the place in Fiendish Codex I. Given that they were used heavily there within the Abyss, and the creative restrictions from early 3e that prevented referencing non-greyhawk deities are no longer in place, I say go with their true flavor rather than pussy-footing around the issue. We're long past the days of talking about Loki The Trickster.

 

[BOZ]

stick around shemmy - with all the Planescape goodness that's going into this query, you can undoubtedly offer some good input.

They're one of many awesome bits of flavor that Planescape developed around different kind of magic that while totally awesome, were nightmares once you got into their effects on game mechanics. I tend to ignore much of it when it comes to running any of the numbers, but preserve much of it in the background when I can when it isn't obtrusive (I like to keep the spell alterations by plane from 2e which are more flavorful than the alterations in 3e).

3e doesn't (like with so many things) so much as eliminate spell-crystals as it does completely ignore them and the topic they address. So you could either reintroduce them as an idea, which would be kinda cool, or perhaps say something to the effect of a Demarax in the vicinity of a creature that's the target of a summoning/divination makes the spell manifest in such a way and can intercept it. Something like that.

Bah. Evil good, game mechanics bad.

[This is why I don't submit articles that involve me having to make up new rules. Hehe]

ah, well, so... we have a couple of options for the demarax. one, we can add spell crystals in as a mechanic so that the flavor can be preserved as-is.

two, we can make the demarax eat something else (even if that means "the energy left over from summoning spells"). this would force a change in the flavor, even if only a minor one.

personally, i prefer the first option, but i will listen to what you all think is best.

Sung Chiang's deific domain in Gehenna, the Teardrop Palace, is actually detailed in the 3e Manual of the Planes. They just weren't allowed to explicitely name Sung Chiang in the description, but it's still there.

And what's more, the Chinese pantheon is all over the place in Fiendish Codex I. Given that they were used heavily there within the Abyss, and the creative restrictions from early 3e that prevented referencing non-greyhawk deities are no longer in place, I say go with their true flavor rather than pussy-footing around the issue. We're long past the days of talking about Loki The Trickster.

you make an excellent point, there. i can at the very least say they worship the "god of the Teardrop Palace." i might be bold and mention Sung Chiang. for now, though, for the query, i think i'll namedrop the Teardrop Palace - if they are accepted for a submission, i'll worry about agonizing over mentioning the god's actual name.


got a couple more in. the garmorm was good as is, just postulated a bit on the type and CR. i'm sleepy now and will head off to bed shortly - got all the PS critters in, and will do the others tomorrow if'n i can.

(Should we also mention the Phirblas from PSMC3?)
Dabus
Outsider?, CR 1?
These tall, slender beings are riddles much like the illusionary rebuses which they use to communicate. Some consider them the manitainers of the city of Sigil, while others think them the servants of the Lady of Pain. These floating creatures have no particular combat abilities, and fight with normal weapons when need be. The main purpose of the dabus' seems to be handling new construction in Sigil, but then most things in Sigil are more than what they appear to be.
Originally found in Planescape Campaign Setting (1994).


Garmorm
Outsider? (chaotic, evil, extraplanar), CR 4?
A vast floating worm native to the Astral Plane, the garmorm absorbs creatures into it with a song - creatures that fail to resist have their soul swallowed and join the choir of faces that cover its body. They are also accomplished spellcasters from all the souls they've absorbed over the centuries, and have a powerful bite.
Originally found in Planescape Monstrous Compendium Appendix III (1998).

 

[Shemeska]

stick around shemmy - with all the Planescape goodness that's going into this query, you can undoubtedly offer some good input.

I'd be happy to, besides it'll give me something to do while I'm waiting to hear back on a pair of queries of my own.

ah, well, so... we have a couple of options for the demarax. one, we can add spell crystals in as a mechanic so that the flavor can be preserved as-is.

two, we can make the demarax eat something else (even if that means "the energy left over from summoning spells"). this would force a change in the flavor, even if only a minor one.

personally, i prefer the first option, but i will listen to what you all think is best.

I say go with option #1

you make an excellent point, there. i can at the very least say they worship the "god of the Teardrop Palace." i might be bold and mention Sung Chiang. for now, though, for the query, i think i'll namedrop the Teardrop Palace - if they are accepted for a submission, i'll worry about agonizing over mentioning the god's actual name.

Sounds like a plan, I just think you can easily get by with naming him and remaining true to the source material, especially given how the original restrictions are not longer in place to prevent it. And in any event, you can openly name him without referencing/connecting him to the larger Chinese pantheon. Most folks reading that recognize him by name will probably be happy to have the flavor included once again.

(Should we also mention the Phirblas from PSMC3?)

As a monster on their own, or in connection to the Dabus? And honestly, I don't see the Dabus getting in on a query outside of an article giving a broader context on them. You talk about the Dabus and you've got to include Sigil, Her Serenity, Rebus, etc. It deserves a longer amount of flavor than is typically allowed in a compilation article with numerous monsters. Just my 0.02 jink on the matter though, it's you guys' query.

Dabus
Outsider?, CR 1?
These tall, slender beings are riddles much like the illusionary rebuses which they use to communicate. Some consider them the manitainers of the city of Sigil, while others think them the servants of the Lady of Pain. These floating creatures have no particular combat abilities, and fight with normal weapons when need be. The main purpose of the dabus' seems to be handling new construction in Sigil, but then most things in Sigil are more than what they appear to be.
Originally found in Planescape Campaign Setting (1994).

I don't think there's any debate about them being "servants of the Lady of Pain". They're rather open about that. They just won't talk about details. When asked where they come from however, they'll say that they came from/were created from Sigil or somesuch. I'd have to look up the reference for what the line actually was though.

 

[demiurge1138]

Your CRs are waaay low. I'd say that linquas are CR 7-8 at least, the gauterie might be around 5 at the lowest. and garmorms are definately over CR 11. Dabus have, if I recall properly, at least 4 HD.

Demiurge out.

 

[BOZ]

As a monster on their own, or in connection to the Dabus? And honestly, I don't see the Dabus getting in on a query outside of an article giving a broader context on them. You talk about the Dabus and you've got to include Sigil, Her Serenity, Rebus, etc. It deserves a longer amount of flavor than is typically allowed in a compilation article with numerous monsters. Just my 0.02 jink on the matter though, it's you guys' query.

i agree, 100%, and for the same reasons. i stated as much in the poll thread. however, it got the most votes by a wide margin, so people really want to see them... so i figure, what the hell, why not, i'll give 'em a try. i think they have a better shot than the tirapheg and stwinger, though.

as for the phirblas, i'd be mentioning their possible/likely connection to the dabus, is all.

I don't think there's any debate about them being "servants of the Lady of Pain". They're rather open about that. They just won't talk about details. When asked where they come from however, they'll say that they came from/were created from Sigil or somesuch. I'd have to look up the reference for what the line actually was though.

if you have it available.

Your CRs are waaay low. I'd say that linquas are CR 7-8 at least, the gauterie might be around 5 at the lowest. and garmorms are definately over CR 11. Dabus have, if I recall properly, at least 4 HD.

this is why i put question marks behind the numbers. the debate is open, so i appreciate your input. as for dabus, they may have 4-HD, but they have no combat abilities whatsoever that i noticed.

 

[BOZ]

Moilian Heart - Return to the Tomb of Horrors
A disembodied human heart trailing arteries and veins in a sinister tangle. These undead creations of the necromancer Drake of the Black Academy of Moil remain inanimate until a living creature approaches. Then they drain life force and begin beating, animating those that they kill as Moil zombies (bleakborn in Libris Mortis). Although a molian heart has no physical attacks, it can project a wave of frost at neaby enemies.

OK, this one seems basically fine as-is. They have no Int score, an awful AC, low HD (3), don't move, and no phyiscal attacks. however, it drains 1d10 hp (kind of like our vampire moss conversion, remember?), has a frost wave attack, spawns undead (after 24 hours), and regenerates (acid and fire being its weakness). CR 2?

 

[Shade]

Wow....you guys have been busy!

<waves to Shemmy>

My thoughts...

Option #1 for demarax.

Name Sung Chiang directly (the Fiendish Codex seals the deal for me as well).

Outsider for gautiere.