Another Immortals Handbook thread

[Upper_Krust]

Hey dude!

There's a natural limit to threat ranges beyond which they have no effect. If you can only hit on a 10, dropping your threat range below that is pointless. Since as you always say, fights at higher levels involve hitting your opponent more times, the chance of 'wasting' damage by getting a huge crit is slim.

Doesn't this imply a sort of universal AC or static to hit bonuses?

That does balance better across weapons. I don't know how I like it.

I'm not sure on it myself. Percentages are sort of like mini-absolutes in a way.

I'm just saying that low-crit weapons will fare poorly under a subtractive system. Even with increases they'll have trouble doing more than x1 or x2.

Unless we were to make all the increases even.

So a pick is good at smothering and disturbing plasma/gas creatures? Why are picks better than swords at these varied functions? It makes no sense.

Well a pick is certainly good at smashing solid objects. A crushing weapon would certainly be good at displacing liquid.

However I see your point. Being able to critical hit such creatures seems more like a talent in itself than simply a matter of power.

It might be better to have a series of feats that allow characters to be able to hurt solid, liquid, gaseous or incandescent creatures with critical hits. The ability to crit solid creatures/objects could be a non-epic feat, but the rest would be epic.

Then on the side we could still allow characters to increase their critical hit power.

This sort of does seem like an absolute though.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Sledge mate!

Umm nope the rollovers don't work.

Now I am talking about the list of 10 options at the top of every page, are you saying none of the rollowvers work for you?

Can no one else see them?

Anyway my point wasn't the enhancement titles. Its just that I've already had to explain to someone that the two items that triple the crit range should have their triples added together using the usually d&d math into a single 5x.

This is true if we are adding one of the weapon abilities with the divine ability.

But I originally got the impression you thought both opening and striking stacked with each other - which they don't.

 

[Sledge]

No I meant opening/striking.

Meanwhile I'm really thinking that any crit reducers should reduce the multiplier OR the the range. Not just one.

 

[Sledge]

The options on the top do not change for me. They just list the obscure name.

btw I'm told that your CSS files are both broken links.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Now I am talking about the list of 10 options at the top of every page, are you saying none of the rollowvers work for you?

Can no one else see them?

I can see them. Maybe it's just Internet Explorer -- I know it doesn't display the titles for all tags, so maybe that's the problem. Sledge, what browser are you using?

In any case Sledge's point about CSS is valid, as I noticed just a few days ago. What do you write you page with? Maybe I can help you with the CSS/HTML.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Doesn't this imply a sort of universal AC or static to hit bonuses?

No. Threat ranges are expressed in terms relative to your attack score -- 17-20 means that if you have a +30 attack bonus you threat on 47 to 50. Against ACs 47 or less you have the same chance to threat, but once you're fighting creatures with higher ACs your range is restricted. You can fight that just by increasing your attack bonus -- no need for more feats.

Since it scales like that, the maximum threat range is 2-20 no matter what you do. There's no upper bound on the crit multiplier, and the crit multiplier isn't likely to be wasted like threat range.

Unless we were to make all the increases even.

Huh?

What does that have to do with the fact that fighting a liquid (-4) creature a longsword won't do anything on a crit? Without your Overwhelming Critical it can't even crit a solid (-2) creature. Heck, Obliterating Critical will only let it do double damage. A pick, on the other hand, can crit solid creatures with no feat and liquid creatures with just your Overwhelming Critical epic feat.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey guys!

No I meant opening/striking.

Meanwhile I'm really thinking that any crit reducers should reduce the multiplier OR the the range. Not just one.

That could be complicated.

The options on the top do not change for me. They just list the obscure name.

btw I'm told that your CSS files are both broken links.

I can see them. Maybe it's just Internet Explorer -- I know it doesn't display the titles for all tags, so maybe that's the problem. Sledge, what browser are you using?

In any case Sledge's point about CSS is valid, as I noticed just a few days ago. What do you write you page with? Maybe I can help you with the CSS/HTML.

I'm using dreamweaver mx.

Okay I am confused about this CSS problem - exactly what is wrong?

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again!

No. Threat ranges are expressed in terms relative to your attack score -- 17-20 means that if you have a +30 attack bonus you threat on 47 to 50. Against ACs 47 or less you have the same chance to threat, but once you're fighting creatures with higher ACs your range is restricted. You can fight that just by increasing your attack bonus -- no need for more feats.

Since it scales like that, the maximum threat range is 2-20 no matter what you do. There's no upper bound on the crit multiplier, and the crit multiplier isn't likely to be wasted like threat range.

Ah, right, now I see the point you were trying to make.

Huh?

What does that have to do with the fact that fighting a liquid (-4) creature a longsword won't do anything on a crit? Without your Overwhelming Critical it can't even crit a solid (-2) creature. Heck, Obliterating Critical will only let it do double damage. A pick, on the other hand, can crit solid creatures with no feat and liquid creatures with just your Overwhelming Critical epic feat.

My apologies, I sort of meant in tandem with my last point in the post you had quoted me from.

In that we make the ability to crit a solid a feat in itself...although seemingly this is where it all goes 'pear shaped' and the critical multiplier idea seems to fall apart.

I'm wondering what the relationship is between real damage and critical damage.

 

[Sledge]

basically what I'm saying is that if a weapon is increased 6-20/x4 then you would reduced the crit range before you reduced the multiplier. In other words this weapon would be 12-20/x4. Against liquid it would be 15-20/x3 and against gaseous it would be 18-20/x2. Incandescent would be uncrittable to this weapon. Make any sense?

 

[Kerrick]

I just updated the website with the second part of the rant on absolutes, this time critical hits get the treatment.

I like that you're dealing with fortification, but I think the subtypes (solid, fragile, etc.) are needlessly overcomplicating things. Frex, the PCs are fighting a group of zombies (solid), a wraith (incorporeal) and a blood ooze (liquid). Two of the PCs are using longswords (19-20/x2), one is using a hammer (x3), and one is using a longbow (x3). Now imagine the nightmare of bookkeeping the DM has in order to ensure that all the PCs do the proper amounts of damage on their crits.

There is, IIRC, an epic feat that enables characters to deliver crits (though I can't seem to find it in the SRD) to non-crittable creatures (or was it sneak attacks?). Anyway, even if there weren't one, it wouldn't be hard to MAKE one and avoid all this nonsense. Say, you can deal crits, but the range is halved (a natural 20 always crits, though). This neatly solves the fortification problem without all the subtypes. For sneak attacks, you deal -5d6 damage, frex. Incorporeal creatures should be immune to all crits except for a few specific cases - holy weapons, e.g. (since most incorporeal are undead), or bane weapons. (Speaking of bane weapons, I just thought of something - a bane weapon could deal crits to the creature to which it is attuned, even if it's normally immune - this would bump the market price up a bit, but it's only one enhancement that works).

And what about the Devastating Critical feat? If someone has the opportunity to crit on a 2-20 (say, a deity), chances are pretty good that he'll kill most opponents with one hit.