Another Immortals Handbook thread

[Upper_Krust]

Hiya mate!

I think it was the anthroposophists who went around classifying different kinds of evil as "Ahrimanic" (based on matter or a materialist point of view) or "Luciferic" (based on spirit or an idealist point of view). But yeah, you don't want to waste the best example of a dualist religion by assigning the name a different role.

Thats certainly part of it. Also I have a quota of (evil) Greater Gods to meet. Hes a great villain, I think he'll see more use as a Greater Deity.

I'm sure you have been asked this already, but have you read Neil Gaiman's books?

No, but I have been meaning to get American Gods out of the library. Just been too busy of late.

I'm thinking of the novel American Gods, and the Sandman series of graphic novels. Mike Carey's spinoff of Sandman is also worth checking out (Lucifer). I think there's another spin-off following Death (who likes to appear as a cheerful Goth girl), but I haven't read any of those. In this setting the angels hang out in "the Silver City" instead of a bunch of upper planes. Prominent figures in the cosmology are "the Endless" - Death, Destiny, Dream, Desire, Delirium (formerly Delight), Despair,... and one absent brother who decided he no longer wanted to be the personification of his portfolio.

The kindly ones (the furies) seem to outrank the Endless, or at least Dream (who is junior to Death and Destiny, but senior to the rest). But the furies are also aspects of Eve (who has a cave in Dream's realm). Lilith is an important figure- I think she represents freedom (in the sense of self determination) more than any other figure. She played an important role in the fall of the angels. And of course she is the mother of a whole race of half-fiends.

Anyway, it's a nice mythology. I hope the Immortals Handbook provides tools that will help describe it in game terms.

Well I couldn't say for sure until after I had read the books, but I'd like to think anything is possible with the IH.

 

[Anabstercorian]

Well I couldn't say for sure until after I had read the books, but I'd like to think anything is possible with the IH.

Except publishing.

 

[Pssthpok]

Zing!

 

[Kerrick]

Okay, I gotta ask... I think your EL rules are all screwy. Last weekend, we had a combat with three CR 6 monsters (2 chain golems and a chain mistress-thing). Our party of 6-8th level characters got slaughtered (we lost almost half the party before we called foul and the DM let us retreat). According to your rules, that was an EL 14 encounter. 14?!? I could see maybe 12 (it was way more than the EL 9 the DM was claiming), but 14? If I do the "mulitply official CR by 1.5" that makes them all CR 9, and the encounter EL 16!

And how does party size figure into that? I mean, 8 PCs should have some effect on the EL of the encounter, right?

 

[Cheiromancer]

@Kerrick

UK's rules are a bit hard to follow. What I do is take his CRs and square them, then add them up. The first measures how tough the encounter. Do the same for character levels. That measures how tough the party is. If the two are about the same, it could easily be a TPK. Especially if luck and/or situational factors are against the party.

If the UK CR of the monsters were 9, that would be a total power of 243 (3 times 9 squared). 4 7th level characters would have a power of 196 (4 times 7 squared). The monsters are more likely to win.

The encounter toughness (243 in this example) I call CHI, and the party's power (196 in this example) I call RHO. I base experience awards off of the ratio; multiply by 300, and each character multiplies by his level of experience. If your party had prevailed, everyone would have gotten around 2600 xp.

[edit] Incidentally, Upper Krust has taken to calling his number ECL instead of CR. Think of the "multiply by 1.5" rule as accounting for the level adjustment needed to play a monster as a player character.[/edit]

 

[historian]

Hey U_K!

BTW, I love the art preview -- your golem reminds me of a scene from the classic Dragon's Lair video game fused with my favorite Herald.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey U_K!

Hey Historian mate!

BTW, I love the art preview --

How the heck did you see that already? I only uploaded it 15 minutes ago!

your golem reminds me of a scene from the classic Dragon's Lair video game fused with my favorite Herald.

Well we both know the inspiration behind that one. I tried to make it recognisable, but at the same time different. I also wanted to make one of the arms look like it is 'cooling down' after having fired a plasma blast but I don't know if I captured it right.

What did you think of the new Gibborim picture?

In general I'm trying to use less blacks where possible, because I don't think my line art is good enough. Also I am trying to put a church window silhouette backgroundy theme thing in to set the images against something, and in many illustrations add some player characters to give a sense of scale.

I know I can design a good image, I just can't draw well enough to fully exploit the design yet. :\

 

[historian]

Hey U_K!

How the heck did you see that already? I only uploaded it 15 minutes ago!

I'm a devoted groupie at this point.

Well we both know the inspiration behind that one. I tried to make it recognisable, but at the same time different. I also wanted to make one of the arms look like it is 'cooling down' after having fired a plasma blast but I don't know if I captured it right.

It's recognizable but original. I like how the faceplate has a more "templar-esque" look to it and the background is quite good. The right arm definitely appears to be cooling after the plasma blast (if not warming up for a blast).

What did you think of the new Gibborim picture?

I love what you've done with the ears.

Overall it looks much more diabolical (in the general sense I mean, not the planar sense necessarily). Well done.

In general I'm trying to use less blacks where possible, because I don't think my line art is good enough. Also I am trying to put a church window silhouette backgroundy theme thing in to set the images against something, and in many illustrations add some player characters to give a sense of scale.

I know I can design a good image, I just can't draw well enough to fully exploit the design yet.

Honestly (no flattery) the art of yours that I've seen is better than what I've seen in most of the d20 line and most rpg products generally. It's not something that's going to be a problem for you and in fact I would venture that many of your readers would applaud it (although you are your harshest critic). However, we should keep in mind that you are tackling some difficult subject matter. Bottom line is that I really like what I see.

I did notice the church window silhouettes and like the idea as a trademark of sort.

Good like with the release of Volume I of the Bestiary!

 

[Cheiromancer]

I like the pictures a lot! Having a "church window" is a nice touch.

I have a question about items and creatures made out of Orichalcum. Wouldn't they be so heavy that normal floors would be unable to support them? If someone has an orichalcum suit of armor, wouldn't they sink into the soil like a normal person sinks into snow? Unless they have anti-gravity properties, that is.

I was thinking about the omnimentals you mention in the bestiary. In a sense people are omnimentals; we breath (air), drink and have liquids flowing inside us (water), produce body heat (fire) and are basically solid, especially our bones (earth).

So I think that omnimentals should be basically humanoid in form. To emphasize the "body" aspect of them, as opposed to the intellectual and spiritual, they should lack a head. Eyes and mouth and so on could be on their torso. Kinda like a four armed star fish. The lack of a head would give them a "fourness" suited for a creature made from the four elements, while people have a "fiveness" to them (think of the human form drawn in a pentacle).

As for color, your suggestion that they should be black (maybe an oily black) sounds good. As you say, all colors mixed together make black. And it's an appropriate color for the eldest omnimental whose common name is "Sin." I still don't like the esoteric name, but I can't think of a better alternative. The greek work for sin is "hamartia" but that doesn't sound right.

 

[Anabstercorian]

Upper Krust, I know I've been dumping a lot of fairly cruel barbs on you lately - and don't think for a second I'm going to stop, you ditsy cur - but I think your art is quite nice. Do try to finish your work - I'm not going to buy your new bestiary until you release the new epic level CHARACTER content, but once I have the tools I need to use the creatures you're providing, you can be sure I'll snap em' up.

Now get back to work! *whipsnap*