Lasher Dragon
First Post
The group I'm in can come to no clear consensus on the save DC for the Cloak of Arachnida's once-per-day Web spell. Anyone have the answer?
Another magic item save DC question...
- Thread starter Lasher Dragon
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Lasher Dragon
First Post
So it doesn't go by the CL required to make a Cloak of Arachnida?
That's what I thought, but that does suck.
That's what I thought, but that does suck.
UltimaGabe
First Post
Lasher Dragon said:
Do save DCs ever change with caster level?
apesamongus
First Post
Lasher Dragon said:
Caster level doesn't normally affect save DCs anyway - even for cast spells.
UltimaGabe said:
Nope. Remember what goes into save DCs:
- Level of the spell
- Ability bonus of the caster (Int bonus for wizards, Wis bonus for clerics, etc.)
- Bonus from feats like Spell Focus / Greater Spell Focus
For most magic items, the assumption is that the effective ability score of the "caster" is the minimum needed to cast the "spell" in question (i.e., you have to have at least an 11 in the key ability to cast a 1st level spell, at least a 12 for a 2nd level spell, etc.)
Note that a higher level caster is *likely* to have a higher key ability score, but that's not an absolute. In other words, it's *likely* that the save DC versus a Web spell will be higher if a 20th level wizard cast it (as opposed to, say, a 5th level wizard), but that's because that 20th level wizard very likely has an ungodly Intelligence modifier, not because the wizard gets any sort of inherent bonus to his save DC for being so high-level.
It could be argued that DC = 10 + 1.5*Spell Level isn't going to be the correct minimum in all cases. In this instancu it is because because Web happens to be the highest spell level on the required spell list. For example a Cube of Force has Firewall (spell level 4) along with Prismatic Spray (spell level 7). For the mage to create this item they must have an Int of 17 (+3 bonus), when added to 10 + spell level 4 = DC 17. However that formula above only gives DC 16.
You could argue that the item still could be created with scrolls for the lower level spells that were created by someone using only scrolls for the lessor spell, or perhaps an lower level assistant that provided that prerequisite. But that would normally be a mage going a tougher route to make a lower powered item.
You could argue that the item still could be created with scrolls for the lower level spells that were created by someone using only scrolls for the lessor spell, or perhaps an lower level assistant that provided that prerequisite. But that would normally be a mage going a tougher route to make a lower powered item.
Darkness said:
But that is what DC = 10 + 1.5*Spell Level is. A way to mathematically express the lowest possible DC for casting a spell of that level given the mechanics of the game. I'm just carrying it forward to the minimum DC for the spell cast by a [single] spell caster to create the item. Of course there is the rare case where you need two of the highest level spells for the item and either your caster level or casting attribute needs to be higher to give you those two spells. So then you'd have to go the ineffecient route of scrolls or get a friend to help out (although they'll have the same caster level and caster attribute minimun as you).
Does it say this anywhere explicitly. Nope. I'm just saying given the mechanics of the game this would be a reasonably common minimum, and unlike lowering the caster level of a spell to build it cheaper higher DC from a good attribute is "free". Take it, or leave it, at that.
P.S. I must concede that Bards/Sorcerors/occational Specialists having to go the scrolls/assistants anyway because of lack of access on their spell lists.
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