Another Polymorph question

[carborundum]

Having read many conflicting opinions and being fed up arguing with my players it's time to start another polymorph headache thread. Sorry guys, I'll have to rely on your patience here

The situation is the 14th level party I'm DM-ing for. The game is going well (all the way from 1st), the characters reasonably balanced, the players reasonably well-behaved and not uber-tweaking every single week. When the going gets really tough though, the wizard ends up casting polymorph and becoming a war troll - usually after casting stone body. He can still cast (since polymorph from the PHB is based on alter self which makes specific exceptions for class abilities and equipment - or something).

It doesn't seem fair that he can overshadow the fighter at fighting while also casting and being invulnerable. Okay, "just" for 14 rounds but still - that's a major combat and most of the session that the rest of the players look a bit down.

Am I doing it right?

 

[Empirate]

Yep, you seem to be doing it right. Which is one of the reasons (stat recalculation on the fly being a PITA is another) why Wizards of the Coast wanted to get rid of Polymorph as years passed... I'd consider banning the spell outright and just using the spells from the Polymorph Subschool instead. Trollform is a nice self-buff, but prohibits casting, which balances out quite well.

Even better IMO: Pathfinder's Beastshape and Elemental Shape spell line. MUCH more balanced. Although your player would likely feel "a little" nerfed...

The openendedness of basic Polymorph is what makes the spell so questionable: each new sourcebook containing monsters multiplied the Wizard's options and potential power. War Trolls are a particularly good example of this.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Polymorph is and always has been a very powerful spell, with incredible versatility. It is understanding that it is as frustrating to you as it is.

Your options are, as with all of these scinarios, either 1- Accept it, 2- Weaken the caster, 3- Strengthen the non-caster.

IF you want to consider the 3rd, I'd recommend you look into Draconomicon, p.116 on Blood Elixirs. Specifically the Gold Dragon Blood Elixir. See that your fighter comes across a cache of a few of these and it'll level the playing field.

 

[kitcik]

Hard to do this mid-campaign.

I would suggest you tell the player that he feels like all this shifting is causing a great deal of strain on his health.

From now on, polymorph = 1d3 of Con lost for a week, no restoration possible. Or some such penalty --> whatever will leave the spell very useful (can't take away his candy after you gave it to him this campaign) but cause enough angst to reduce its use quite a bit.

 

[carborundum]

Yeah, I don't want to change much mid-campaign. I had hoped we were doing it wrong and that the polymorph spell had to abide by the polymorph subschool rules. Titanic melee monster OR spell-caster, but not both. A fair dilemma. Strangely, it seems not to. Ah well - thanks folks.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I limit the Polymorph spells to the original MM. I find a lot of the monsters in the subsequent books completely and utterly broken what little sense of "formula" numbers monsters got (str score, nat armor bonus, etc...) got completely thrown out the window. War Troll is a particularly huge atrocity of common decency.

At lower levels druids can abuse the monster power creep (which is much larger than player power creep in splats, IMO) by getting that 2ish HD dinosaur from Eberron. Clawfoot, I think it's called? Of course, as DM I also refrain from using those broken things as much as possible. Turn about is fair play.

[sblock]I remember playing my first polymorph-focused spellcaster. DM threw cave trolls at us (almost as nasty as war trolls but not quite, DM was sane enough to not do that). He had a rule for that game that I needed to encounter a creature to polymorph into it (this was also a game meant to be and indeed played by the exact same players and characters from 1-20, no issue of a new PC coming in mid levels and being screwed or getting free forms). The Cave Trolls were pretty crazy overpowered and nearly killed us, but man was I grinning when the battle ended. I think my exact words to him were, after looking over their stat block, "This is the single greatest gift you could have ever given my character." He sort of "handed out" the occasional uber monster form like a normal DM hands out treasure, so he just laughed.

But yeah, I could do more damage than the Fighter if I only buffed myself. I also had a d4 HD and knew being all glass cannon would get me killed. Why risk my own life when I can embolden the Fighter to risk his?[/sblock]

I do not recommend going to PF rules, they nerfed too much, you're not actually becoming the creature, and almost all the spells became selfish caster spells that you can only use on yourself. Say what you will about Polymorph, but it's a spell you can share with others, at least. A caster can turn into a melee brute and outshine the unbuffed Fighter. Or he can cast it on the Fighter and make him an even better killing machine.

/minority opinion, please resume bashing 3E polymorph even though the OP indicated he hasn't even had a problem until now.

 

[Greenfield]

Whenever players come up with a trick like this I sit back and remind myself that the game world has been around for a while, and that any "new" trick they come up with may be old hat to the world's residents.

So they see a war troll rolling in with a bunch of pink-skin types that normally wouldn't associate with such a minster. Either it's a Polymorph or a Charmed Monster. Either way, a well timed Greater Dispel can just ruin their day.

It won't work every time, naturally, but often enough to force the PC to come up with a Plan B.

What he's dong is perfectly valid. A 14th level Wiz is, and should be, a power to be reconned with. Don't take that away from the player. But let him know that he isn't the 1st high level caster to try this, and that it hasn't succeeded in ruling the world just yet.

 

[carborundum]

To be honest, the stats of the War Troll aren't the problem - its the DC25 Fortitude save or be Dazed that is unfair to, say, the Fighter. But that's a dead horse that has endured much whipping already