Another sacred cow. Autohit on 20. Keep or Slay?

[Lord Zardoz]

Keep em both. I'm not sure I like that the confirmation roll is gone though. I liked that little moment of suspense.

What I really don't like is the critical failure on skill rolls.

I also do not like that the confirm roll was removed. It allows for some unusual / strange cases. If the Ac of the target is 20 or more greater than the attack bonus, and 20 is an Auto-Hit, then you can get situations where very hit on a given target is an auto critical, which I just do not like.

If 20 is not an auto hit, and your targets AC requires a 20 to hit, your still in a situation where every hit you make is an auto hit.

END COMMUNICATION

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Ditch 'em.

A master swordsman has a 5% chance with every blow to screw up? Nuh-uh.

As for 20=autohit, get rid of it. If you are ever in a situation where their AC is more than 20 higher than your attack roll, then it requires tactics. Basically, it shouldn't happen.

Fumble on skill roll? No way man. A surgeon who botches 5% of his operations gets fired. A Pilot who crashes 5% of his flights dies. An adventurer fails to climb a knotted rope 5% of the time.

Just... no.

I just about bet you a surgeon fumbles once every 20 operations. But just because the fighter doesn't necessarily lose the fight by rolling a one, neither does the surgeon kill his patient. It merely means he'll use another stitch or two when sewing a wound, or the patient will spend an extra day in the hospital. Likewise, the pilot doesn't necessarily crash, the landing was a little rough, he misjudged the weather and some turbulence spilled a few drinks, etc. The only way for your analogy to work is if the fighter rolled once. A one ends the fight, he's dead.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

I voted other. While losing PA as we knew it, there may still be some potential for abuse, (I say this for the sake of others, I liked PA). I like the idea of needing an action die to activate the automatic hit feature of a natural 20, which would also be a critical. This leaves open the potential miracle hit, but dosen't make hoping for one worth the cost.

 

[Rallek]

I've used the same rule since my 2e days.


Natural 20's always hit, but if the attack would miss on the roll of a 20 if not for the "autohit" nature of 20's, then the attack cannot result in a crit.


So with the caveat of the aforementioned house rule, I say keep both the "20 always hits" and the "1's always miss" rules.

 

[Roman]

yes but since it looks like crits will only do max damage dr 10/magic makes it invulrerable.

DR appears to be out of the game in 4E. Supposedly, it makes "the math difficult".

 

[Roman]

Autohit and automiss aren't so bad, even to my simulationist side. 5% just isn't that big a percentage, and everybody screws up (or gets lucky) sometimes, regardless of skill level.

What I dislike is the idea of autohit and autocrit on the same result. Swarms of kobolds that can only harm their heavily-armored dwarf target 5% of the time are fine, but when all of those lucky hits are also criticals, my suspension of disbelief starts to break down.

Personally, I prefer the idea of critting when your totalled attack roll surpasses the target's AC by 10 or so, but most folks are so enamored of in the "NATURAL TWENTY!" happydance that it'd probably be a tough sell.

I share your sentiments on the matter. I suppose there could be a rule that states that a critical hit cannot occur unless the 20 would have hit without an autohit rule, but WOTC seems so enthralled by a natural 20 that I am sceptical they will include even that rule.

 

[Brace Cormaeril]

The only flaw is if the game system isunable to handle such an awsome fight. Taking on a horde of foes is as part of D&D as the Lone BBEG. If that 10-100 orcs have to be level one orc minions, so be it.

No more morale checks though. Keep both.
My PC's would wipe the floor with a 1000 commoners. I also do not believe that you would be able to line a 1000 guys in anything but an open field, if your goal is to open fire on one guy. These guys fill what, a 2500 X 2500 foot square? I don't have arms and equipment guide 3.5, but that would be a lotta' parapets. I love the epic battles of the PC's going up against an army. PC's got fireballs and dimension doors and displacement effects, are often ethereal, invisible, in contact with beings from the outer planes and have hot romantic partners. Basically, I just don't think that any PC's are going to just charge an army.
But they could.

Or peasant Bob or whoever, actually descended from some super king of ages past, can take up his deer hunting bow and nail Smaug as he descends on Rivertown or however that went in that book my that one dude.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

The autohit 20 is ok (it instills a little fear in players who otherwise are foolishly fearless) but it has a glitch.

My army of 400 1st level non-fighters marches up against the Invincible Monster (whatever that happens to be.)
They all fire poisoned arrows.

We win initiative, and 400 arrows are fired. 20 are autohits, because a natural 20 was rolled.
The Invincible Monster must now make 20 saving throws versus poison. And, of course, it rolls one natural 1, which is an auto failure.

The Invincible Monster is thus dead.

A variation of this is to have large numbers of archers fire poisoned arrows at high level enemies, in wartime situations (such as the Siege of Minas Tirith in the film.)
Autohits, and then Autofailures on saves, are inevitable. It just doesn't pay to stand up there exposed on the wall.

Just a glitch in the system, is all. Was there in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition.