Another Undead vs Fortitude save spell ?

[hammymchamham]

Not sure if its been asked, but would the Orb spells from T&B which have fortitude saves (Such as Acid Orb) deal damage to Undead or would they be immune, with the whole 'Undead are immune to fortitude saving effects."

I would say this is an exception. Thoughts?

 

[IceBear]

I think that this would force a Fortitude save for the undead (using CHA instead of CON for the modifier)

IceBear

 

[Destil]

If the spells can target objects then they should work. If it's limited to creatures it shouldn't. If memory serves the're energy missles? Which would affect whatever they hit, so yes it should work.

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

Since its Acid damage, and corporeal undead aren't protected against such damage, normally, yes, the Acid orb would work.

About the "undead-are-immuned-to-spells-that-require-a-fortitude-saving-throw" thing, is that a rule, or more of a generalization, since most Fortitude-save spells are of the poison, disease or insta-death types, and undead are immuned to such effects? Undead immunities are: "Immune to mind-influencing effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, and disease. Not subject to critical hits, subdual damage, ability damage, energy drain, or death from massive damage". Says nothing about "spell effects that necessitate a fortitude saving throw"...

Maitre D

 

[Destil]

Since its Acid damage, and corporeal undead aren't protected against such damage, normally, yes, the Acid orb would work.

About the "undead-are-immuned-to-spells-that-require-a-fortitude-saving-throw" thing, is that a rule, or more of a generalization, since most Fortitude-save spells are of the poison, disease or insta-death types, and undead are immuned to such effects? Undead immunities are: "Immune to mind-influencing effects, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, and disease. Not subject to critical hits, subdual damage, ability damage, energy drain, or death from massive damage". Says nothing about "spell effects that necessitate a fortitude saving throw"...

Maitre D

More precisely, undead are immune to effects that require a fortitude save unless these affect objects as well. There are some odd exceptions that logic necessitates (disruption weapons, spells that specifically target undead), but that's the general rule (MM 6).

 

[James McMurray]

I think that this would force a Fortitude save for the undead (using CHA instead of CON for the modifier)

IceBear

Undead only use their Charisma modifier for Concentration checks, not in place of all Constitution related things. However, that's a decent houserule, because without it, undead are pathetically easy to destroy with Disintigrate or Disruption weapons.

 

[IceBear]

Undead only use their Charisma modifier for Concentration checks, not in place of all Constitution related things. However, that's a decent houserule, because without it, undead are pathetically easy to destroy with Disintigrate or Disruption weapons.

Ah, ok, I thought someone from WotC ruled that if an Undead needed to make a Fortitude save then to use CHA instead of CON (to represent the force of will that is keeping the undead "alive") as a blanket statement. Thanks for the clarification.

IceBear

 

[Hypersmurf]

Ah, ok, I thought someone from WotC ruled that if an Undead needed to make a Fortitude save then to use CHA instead of CON (to represent the force of will that is keeping the undead "alive") as a blanket statement.

Doesn't match with the stat blocks in the MM...

On the bright side, because their Con is -- and not 0, at least they don't get a -5 penalty to Fort Saves

-Hyp.

 

[IceBear]

Doesn't match with the stat blocks in the MM...

On the bright side, because their Con is -- and not 0, at least they don't get a -5 penalty to Fort Saves

-Hyp.

Understood. I answered in haste, and *thought* I remembered someone from WotC saying that's how it *should* work. I guess I remembered wrong. I apologize....please don't beat me

IceBear

 

[James McMurray]

I believe that either Monte Cook or Andy Collins have mentioned that in the past. As I said, its an excellent house rule. Maybe it'll make it into v3.5.