Antiques and Magical Enhancements

[Kaodi]

This is more of a hypothetical question than a game question, since historical value is not really modeled in game economies.

So you have recovered the ancient Spear of Municia Dir-Rada, Lady Protector of Irregarth, who fought and slew the demon general Vaghust in single combat, then rallied the city's defenders to drive out the armies of the Abyss. Or any other historical significantly weapon.

For the sake of argument, let us say the Spear of Municia Dir-Rada is equivalent to a +3 holy longspear, and it has fiery motifs etched into the blade. As a historically significant antique, let us suppose that the Spear is worth more than the average +3 holy longspear.

So you possess the Spear, but what you really need is a +4 holy flaming longspear. Maybe you are fighting demon-corrupted ice elementals, or whatever. So you have your skilled wizard friend enchant the spear to sharper and flamier.

The question is: Is the Spear of Municia Dir-Rada worth as much as it was before plus the additional value of the upgrades? Is its historical integrity destroyed, and now only worth slightly more than a brand new +4 holy flaming longspear? Or is it worth somewhere in between those values? (I suppose a fourth option might be: Is it worth more that its original value plus the value of the upgrades? But I do not think it very possible.)

Edit: There is actually a second, contingent question that I meant to ask as well: If the historical value of a +3 holy longspear with flame motif is not destroyed by turning it into a +4 holy flaming longspear, could it be destroyed by turning it into a +3 holy frost longspear? Or if historical value is destroyed by adding an additional +1 and a flaming enchantment it did not have, could its historical value be preserved by merely upgrading it to +5?

 

[Nagol]

I'd probably treat the two values (historical significance and as a working tool) separate. If the two values are close then the larger field of interested parties probably warrants a premium to the underlying price.

If a collector wants the item for historical/collectable value; they'll pay X regardless of its use as a working tool.

A person concerned with its ability a a tool won't pay much of a premium because of the tool's history.

So if the historical value is X, but the tool value is X - N then the tool could be sold for X plus small premium determined by how close N is to zero and thus the additional number of interested parties.

If the tool value is actually X + N then it can be sold for X + N plus small premium determined by how close N is to zero and thus the additional number of interested parties.

 

[Tonguez]

This is in general so I'll give you a non-rules answer.

The historical value of the item as an antique has got nothing to do with its magical enchantment and is entirely based on the RP value.

However the historic value might also be reflected in the Legendary status of the weapon which is also separate from the the enchantment value BUT which might allow a wielder of 'Pure Heart' a +1 circumstance bonus against demons, which means that the Spear of Municia Dir-Rada +3 suddenly functions as a +4 for as long as the wielder is of pure heart

 

[rkwoodard]

destroyed

Hello,

I say the historical value is destroyed. I am assuming that any additional enchantment will some visible alteration on the spear, and that would be enough to change it and ruin the value.

I know any analogy I use will not be perfect, but here is one anyway. It would be like taking the Spirit of 76 plane and upgrading the engine. Sure it flies better, but the historical value is diminished.

RK

 

[Dioltach]

I'd say the historical value and symbolism remain intact, and might even be enhanced. It's a fairly common theme in fantasy literature for heirlooms or magic items to be upgraded (although to be honest the only one I can think of off the top of my head is the Sword of Leah in the Shannara series). People don't say, oh you reinvented the power/symbolism of our relic to defeat a new evil so now it's not what it was. No, they'd be more likely to say, look at our relic, after all this time it can still be used to defeat a new evil and now it's more powerful than ever.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

It also depends on who knows what it could do before the upgrade. If only the party knows (they found it in an ancient tomb), and upgrade it secretly, then the historical value remains the same.

 

[Kaodi]

The inspiration for my question is, of course, the Antiques Roadshow. An episode I saw years ago had an armoir that had been redone because the finish was all cracked. As it was, the armoir was worth somewhere between $250,000 US, I think. Had it been left with the original finish, it would have been worth over $750,000. It was an American piece, and something my Dad told me, who knows a bit about antiques, was that there is a real difference between American antiques and Canadian antiques (or maybe just Americans and Canadians valuing of them) in that the former are really valued for being in their original form, whereas the latter can have more repairs done without losing as much value.

 

[S'mon]

I would tend to derive the power of the weapon from its legendary status - it's a +3 holy longspear because it's the ancient Spear of Municia Dir-Rada, Lady Protector of Irregarth, who fought and slew the demon general Vaghust in single combat, then rallied the city's defenders to drive out the armies of the Abyss. By this metric 'historical value' and 'use value' are always identical.
I think this fits D&D-gnomics best; a clean separation between use-value and independent historical-value is ok but feels a bit mundane and un-D&Dish to me. I always feel uneasy when I see very high gp value items listed as 'mundane'. I prefer that magic & value always go together, so that the 1 million gp piece of jewelry always has significant magical potency.