Any DM's not allowing Spiked Chains?

[wildstarsreach]

And that is the 2nd reason aside from the unique reach properties (well, unique within the PHB). Focusing your build around this weapon does not make you a one trick pony over the mid to long term. While most spiked chain users go primarily for exploiting the reach capabilities this weapon provides, they arent limited to purely sweeping fodder.

The weapon rocks for disarm.
- Its a 2 handed weapon
- It gets a bonus to disarm
- When you disarm at 10 feet away, you do not provoke an AoO

The weapon also rocks for trip
- It gets a bonus to trip attacks
- When you trip at 10 feet away, you do not provoke an AoO

The spiked chain is a great weapon for either of these tactics even without Improved Trip / Improved Disarm. And getting both is simply another 3 feats. My problem with this weapon is mostly due to the reach, but its the reach plus these benefits that put it over. They can start the build out for sweeping fodder, and later adapt it to exploit the Trip / Disarm features.

Regardless, I do concede that much of my dislike of this weapon is sub rational. When I consider the weapon as a whole, I just really do not like its potential implications.

END COMMUNICATION

The same can be said about the other weapons I have pointed out. The advantage for them is weapon finese and lower damage. I like this entire class of weapon and have only just made one character in which uses the kusari-gama. He's a ninja and this is the flavor of the character.

 

[wildstarsreach]

These three are basically there for the monk to flurry with. For anyone else, they might as well not exist.



It's a katana, mang! That alone is worth 10,000 feats. And a tank.

The only reason to take the exotic weapon feat is to use one handed in a two weapon fighting and/or with a shield. A fighting type can already use it two handed.

 

[Elethiomel]

Bah, katana are one handed not hand and a half swords. (compare the lengths and weights of katana and one handed/ hand and a half weapons from other regions museum catalogs if you don't believe me.) The Japanese just used them two handed because they had an irrational disregard for the value of shields.

Or maybe the Japanese used them two handed because they tend to be shorter than caucasians?

 

[Nail]

Might as well change the names of the categories to:

Simple

Martial

Difficult

Remove most of the current exotic weapons from the difficult list, and yer good to go.

 

[Celebrim]

Might as well change the names of the categories to:

Simple

Martial

Difficult

Remove most of the current exotic weapons from the difficult list, and yer good to go.

Yes, and move the longbow and the sling to the difficult list. Then divide each of the three lists into a standard and unusual list.

Everyone gets the standard list of simple/martial/difficult. Everyone gets to choose a 'cultural weapon package' of a couple unusual simple and martial weapons that they can wield, and everyone gets one difficult weapon which they can treat as a martial weapon and a couple of unusual difficult weapons they can take together with a single feat ('Exotic Weapon User'). You can buy another culture's cultural weapon package as a feat.

 

[NilesB]

Or maybe the Japanese used them two handed because they tend to be shorter than caucasians?

The Japanese are not Pygmies, the height difference is inconsequential. That doesn't change the fact that katana are the same length and weight as one handed swords weilded by Europeans, Arabs, Turks, Indians, Mongols (not taller than Japanese), Chinese (also not taller than Japanese), Koreans (ditto), and every other ethnicity or culture that we have surviving examples of steel swords from.

 

[hong]

By that logic the quarterstaff should be super-duper exotic.

Well, ask yourself this: have you ever seen a buck-and-a-quarterstaff?

Bah, katana are one handed not hand and a half swords.

Nonsense. Katanae are six feet long, with a 12-inch-wide blade. Just look at Nightmare.

(compare the lengths and weights of katana and one handed/ hand and a half weapons from other regions museum catalogs if you don't believe me.) The Japanese just used them two handed because they had an irrational disregard for the value of shields.

Shields are useless! A katana could cut through them in 1e-15 seconds (the minimum resolution if using 8-byte IEEE double precision, and only marginally less time than it would take to cut through a tank). Just look at what Anakin did to that wannabe Grevious.

 

[hong]

The only reason to take the exotic weapon feat is to use one handed in a two weapon fighting and/or with a shield.

My character is so cool he can use 2 katanae AND a shield.

 

[Nazhkandrias]

OK, there seems to be a bit of a debate as to what qualifies a weapon as exotic. My view on qualifications for categories -

SIMPLE
- Simple to make and obtain, inexpensive - any commoner could get their hands on one.
- Little finesse required - doesn't take much finesse to thrust with a spear or bash with a club.
- Not specifically designed for any real purpose - specialized weapons are more at home in the hands of specialized military units, no commoners.

MARTIAL
- Require some level of talent to make, quality is a factor; might take a little bit, but not too long, to obtain - Any fool can find or make a spear, but a flail is something that might be difficult to craft, and possibly even illegal to buy. Usually only given to soldiers or adventurers.
- A certain degree of skill required - swords are martial because there is a complicated fighting style involved in their use, with blocks, counters, and different fighting styles.
- Usually excels or is designed for a specific purpose - Ranseurs disarm well, rapiers allow for fast dueling, flails disarm and trip like no other.

EXOTIC
- Very elaborate, often difficult to make; near impossible to obtain, as they are not in common military use, and few have the skill to make them - A scimitar is a finely tuned and sharpened weapon, but it doesn't require nearly as much attention to weighting and detail as a spiked chain. Usually only in the hands of smart-shopping adventurers.
- High degree of skill required - Probably takes years of training. Using a bastard sword takes months or years to get used to the weight's impact on fighting style, spiked chains are incredibly difficult to safely wield, and two-bladed swords are more of a danger to the untrained user than to the enemy.
- Very specialized or unusual traits - few weapons have qualities more unusual than those of a spiked chain or gnome hooked hammer.

So, in conclusion, it can be assumed that a character proficient with an exotic weapon can use it effectively, through weeks or even months to years of training. A spiked chain user can direct the weapon like an extension of their body, snapping it around with great expertise and not hitting anything they don't want to, and a bastard swordsman doesn't even feel the extra weight.

Back to the issue of spiked chain, as I feel very strongly about it - proficiency assumes a natural knack combined with intense training. The chain isn't blindly swung about, it is manipulated by snapping it forward, propelling it like a missile, not smashing sideways with it. A skilled user can smash a fly in midair ten feet away and snap it around several times, bringing it back and snapping it until momentum is negated. And you don't hold the spikes, it has grips. Proficient users know what they're doing and could probably lob it over an ally's head to hit an enemy directly behind them (not suggesting this be put into the game).

Spiked chains are no more overpowering than a Dwarven Waraxe combined with a Tower Shield.