Any Good Games Where Running Away Can Be A Victory?

[doctorbadwolf]

I don’t mean that in the sense where escaping from a battle that isn’t going your way is better than the alternative, I mean more…games that have a feel where fighting is sometimes an option but a lot of times the way to win is to outsmart and get away from something, like Jack escaping the giant at the top of the beanstalk.

So, again, not a game where the “normal” win state is to defeat an enemy, but one where there is conflict, there can be fighting, but getting away/getting away with something is also often the win state.

Does this even make sense?

Like Cthulhu related games tend toward parts of this, except they also tend toward a state where you aren’t going to win.

I haven’t played Cubicle 7’s Doctor Who game, but I imagine it is skewed heavily toward never using combat as the solution.

Monster of The Week maybe? I haven’t played quite enough to say, and we had a campaign that was much more Buffy than it was X-Files, so fighting monsters was pretty heavily the focus. I plan on taking a more detailed look at that game, but any further recommendations would be useful.

If you have achieved that dynamic in your traditional games, how did you do it? I do not mean, to be super clear, the dynamic of avoiding combat in early D&D because it’s super deadly. I mean actually making the win state of a scenario with a problem that is dangerous be things other than “one side is violently defeated”.

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

That's a very interesting question. In my long years of gaming, I don't know that I've seen a system where specifically outsmarting people is a baked-in victory condition. I do know that there are plenty of heist games out there that may cater to that specifically, almost to the point where combat is a 'lose'. Maybe the new Monte Cook game that's coming out? Blanking on the name, something about Stories We Stole from the Devil or something?

It's been my experience a lot of times that the 'trickery is a win condition' comes from the GM down, and not so much from a system. I'm curious to find out if there are any

 

[AtomicPope]

The only system where "running away" can become a "win" and it's baked into the system that I can think of is Sentinels Comics RPG. In Sentinels you can use your (super) powers and qualities to Overcome a situation (like an extended skill check). If you have a movement ability then "running away" or setting up conditions to justify "running away" could complete the Challenge and win the scene. Example:

The Super Heroes are fighting the evil Professor Mordoom and his fiendish corporate minions. They must stop the Professor from sacrificing the city to an Inferno of Hellfire, thus becoming the Professor of Hell. The Challenge might take several successful Overcomes to win the scenario. In Sentinels there's no reason why a team couldn't do the following:
1. Use Teleportation to evacuate the people.
2. Use super sonic Running and/or Flight to disrupt the ritual.
3. Use any movement power to escape after getting the people out.

Meanwhile, they're attacked by the corporate fiends of Mordoom, and the Professor himself. They just dodge and/or tank the damage until they can safely run away.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

That's a very interesting question. In my long years of gaming, I don't know that I've seen a system where specifically outsmarting people is a baked-in victory condition. I do know that there are plenty of heist games out there that may cater to that specifically, almost to the point where combat is a 'lose'. Maybe the new Monte Cook game that's coming out? Blanking on the name, something about Stories We Stole from the Devil or something?

It's been my experience a lot of times that the 'trickery is a win condition' comes from the GM down, and not so much from a system. I'm curious to find out if there are any

Yeah, it's odd that it isn't more common, though, I think? I feel like it's very common in stories, but when we sit down to tell stories collaberatively like this, there is this dichotomy. A given game either treats combat as sort of encouraged, or discouraged. Even Monster of The Week doesn't want you to fight the monsters all that much. There are playbooks that can, but generally you have to do research, investigate, plan, pull some deeply bespoke and/or incredibly reckless magic, etc, to win the day. Violence is at most what the Chosen does to keep the monster from killing anyone while the rest of the team does The Thing. It's fun, because it drives the story very very effectively toward certain types of stories, certain tropes, certain patterns, etc, and those are fun stories to be part of, but it is still in that mold of "combat or non-combat, but not both" as a focus of the game.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

The only system where "running away" can become a "win" and it's baked into the system that I can think of is Sentinels Comics RPG. In Sentinels you can use your (super) powers and qualities to Overcome a situation (like an extended skill check). If you have a movement ability then "running away" or setting up conditions to justify "running away" could complete the Challenge and win the scene. Example:

The Super Heroes are fighting the evil Professor Mordoom and his fiendish corporate minions. They must stop the Professor from sacrificing the city to an Inferno of Hellfire, thus becoming the Professor of Hell. The Challenge might take several successful Overcomes to win the scenario. In Sentinels there's no reason why a team couldn't do the following:
1. Use Teleportation to evacuate the people.
2. Use super sonic Running and/or Flight to disrupt the ritual.
3. Use any movement power to escape after getting the people out.

Meanwhile, they're attacked by the corporate fiends of Mordoom, and the Professor himself. They just dodge and/or tank the damage until they can safely run away.

Okay, that sounds pretty interesting. Is it difficult in that system to make characters who are useful whether the situation calls for punching or for non-violent resolution?

 

[ninjayeti]

I believe the Alien RPG has scenarios where killing the Alien(s) is unnecessary (and unlikely).

I think in order to do this you need to take fighting off the table as a viable way to win. The obvious solution is to make the enemy is too tough to fight directly (e.g., Aliens, the Giant from Jack and the Beanstalk). Another way is to make the enemy too numerous to defeat them all (e.g. the zombie apocalypse). I think this scenario can work well in many conventional RPGs because it allows for some fighting (you need to kill the zombies by the back door so you can make a break for it) but ultimately combat won't achieve the victory condition. A third option is a scenario where the PC's don't want to fight (e.g. a modern heist game where the cops are shooting at the PC's but they don't want to shoot back).

 

[was]

scenarios that include rescuing folks from a natural disaster

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I believe the Alien RPG has scenarios where killing the Alien(s) is unnecessary (and unlikely).

I think in order to do this you need to take fighting off the table as a viable way to win. The obvious solution is to make the enemy is too tough to fight directly (e.g., Aliens, the Giant from Jack and the Beanstalk). Another way is to make the enemy too numerous to defeat them all (e.g. the zombie apocalypse). I think this scenario can work well in many conventional RPGs because it allows for some fighting (you need to kill the zombies by the back door so you can make a break for it) but ultimately combat won't achieve the victory condition. A third option is a scenario where the PC's don't want to fight (e.g. a modern heist game where the cops are shooting at the PC's but they don't want to shoot back).

The Alien solution has problems in terms of making it a dichotomy. I basically am trying to find any games where in one scene or arc or adventure it's Jack escaping the Giant, and in another it's a duel for the honor of the Queen, and in another it's infiltate the castle to find the princess and take vengeance against your lifelong enemy. DnD only does this by way of DM framing, but has no great way to encourage those different scenarios.

 

[Crusadius]

Are you looking for a rules system that supports such games, or scenario ideas?

Blades in the Dark is a game where the PCs attempt a single operation with a particular goal. That goal might be murder for hire, but also can include thievery, extortion, dark rituals, and smuggling runs. The latter likely requiring the PCs to run away to be successful - that is, killing your opponents isn't the goal and their death might mean you fail (especially if you're trying to blackmail them - you can't squeeze money from a dead body).

Also my initial reaction to the question was Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, where running away means you get to live another day, and if that isn't victory I don't know what is...

 

[Blue Orange]

Write a Parkour game.