Any inherent conflict between per-encounter and per-day abilities?

[Dausuul]

To me, the issue only crops up with durations of "one encounter."

Abilities that refresh per-encounter aren't a problem, because there are strict requirements for ending an encounter; you have to be able to sit and rest for 60 seconds with nothing trying to kill you. A duration of one encounter, however, is subject to all kinds of exploitation if there isn't a similar limiting mechanic in place. I'd be inclined to say encounters cap out at 5 minutes...

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I think something like a per-day resource will always be broken if the players/DM lets it be broken. I personally and my players abide by this as well we rest when it makes sense. Plus in PoL worlds I imagine it is more dangerous to rest in the wild/in a dungeon then to simply keep going.

I'd say encounters would cap out at the end of that particular sequence of events. So a fight followed by a chase sequence then losing the person your chasing the encounter power would only recharge after you lose the person. So essentially a encounter is still the end of any continuous sequence of events.

 

[Campbell]

This is an easy one for me. Encounters end when it is dramatically appropriate for them to end. Some might say this opens up the game to DM abuse, but I say it gives a DM another tool in his pacing toolbox and that the game was opened up for DM abuse the moment the DM designed the encounter. You really cannot protect a role playing game from malicious entities that seek to wreak havoc upon the other participants. Call it Campbell's First Law of RPGs.

 

[Irda Ranger]

Well, we know that some powers last for an entire encounter. From the cleric section on http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=4e , and ultimately Races&Classes: "Most short-term buffs will last until the end of the encounter. That's it. It's simple, it's clear and the effects are more powerful since the duration is shorter. "

If this even became a real issue I'd rule that they last three minutes. I don't know any combat that lasts 30 rounds, and most people take more than 3 minutes after a combat to search for loot / bandage wounds.

Why continue for the rest of the day after using your 150-HP per-day fireball?

Plenty of "in game" reasons that others have mentioned, but mostly because you're still at 80% effectiveness (per WotC sources), so why not keep going?

 

[malraux]

For me, I'd argue that an encounter ends when the players loot the bodies. That's logically where the encounter should end anyway.

In addition, I suspect that there will be balancing reasons to want to end the encounter. If significant healing is only available once per encounter, and assuming that players can reasonably use per encounter abilities outside of an encounter, then the characters will have the choice of going on with whatever buff they had going, or getting their HP back up to full. That way, it gives every character a reason to want to end an encounter.

 

[Novem5er]

I suspect that /day powers will be balanced because:

1. Not every power will be useful in every situation. For instance, an area-affect version of a normally single target spell is only going to be worth casting if you can get the bad guys to stand in formation. With combats only lasting 3-5 rounds, and with added mobility, this may be hard to do. Once it happens, BLAST THEM, but it wont happen every encounter.

2. Some /day powers will be overkill and wouldn't be wasted on some encounters. For instance, a single-target high-damage blast would be very useful attacking that Troll Brute, but would be wasted on any of the 6 orcs that attacked in the previous encounter... or the next encounter.

3. Characters will have enough /day abilities that they wont blow them all in the same encounter and feel "used up". Taking the first 2 points together, a wizard might uses his area-blast on the Orc encounter and the later on use his high-damage blast on the Troll. Assuming that either of these powers are enough to turn the tide of battle, the player wont feel the need to keep spamming similar powers on the same encounter, which means he/she should have some gusto left for later encounters.

If a DM decides to throw encounters together that are WAY about the group level, then that DM is encouraging his players to burn through as many /day powers as possible. Thus we are back to the 5 minute adventuring day, but it would be the DMs fault. If a player decided to blast every Orc with his /day powers (overkill be damned!), then the problem creeps back, but this time it's the players fault.... and the DM has a troll break down the door to their cozy room at the inn, screaming "that Column of Flame would be pretty handy now, WOULDN'T IT?!"

 

[Tuft]

If a DM decides to throw encounters together that are WAY about the group level, then that DM is encouraging his players to burn through as many /day powers as possible. Thus we are back to the 5 minute adventuring day, but it would be the DMs fault.

Well, if you have the kind of DM that likes to keep his players as "challenged" as possible, by throwing encounters at them that they just barely can handle....

 

[Novem5er]

Well, if you have the kind of DM that likes to keep his players as "challenged" as possible, by throwing encounters at them that they just barely can handle....

And that's fine... but nobody could claim that the system was broken. In a non-dungeon setting, these kind of encounters are actually preferable. I mean, how many encounters is one expecting to face in an urban adventure in one day? That town watch has got to be good for something!

 

[S'mon]

To me, the issue only crops up with durations of "one encounter."

Abilities that refresh per-encounter aren't a problem, because there are strict requirements for ending an encounter; you have to be able to sit and rest for 60 seconds with nothing trying to kill you. A duration of one encounter, however, is subject to all kinds of exploitation if there isn't a similar limiting mechanic in place. I'd be inclined to say encounters cap out at 5 minutes...

I'd use 10 minute Turns, as in older editions of D&D, where after combat ended the PCs were taken to rest, bind wounds, loot etc for the rest of the turn.

 

[moritheil]

I find it interesting that the only concern most people have is balance. Per day is plausible in the game world; per encounter is strange, to say the least, and is clearly derived from metagame concerns.