Any monsters get -weaker- in 3e

[Churchill]

Weaker? Nah!

One of the critters in the MM2 that sorta jumped out at me as having been diminished was the Thri-Kreen (piddling CR1).

Then I thought about it: The bug-men can advance by character class. You toss on a few levels of whatever class will most bedevil your players (hmmm... maybe monk?), and viola, instant bad @$$.

The same holds true for almost any beastie. Even the ones that the books say advance by hit dice. We all know that the DM can add character levels to ANYthing he wants.

So, with that in mind, there probably are a bunch of nasties that may seem to be defanged (so to speak), but with judicious modifying they get MUCH worse.

 

[Psion]

Re: Weaker? Nah!

One of the critters in the MM2 that sorta jumped out at me as having been diminished was the Thri-Kreen (piddling CR1).

Then try the one in the Psionics handbook web enhancement. I get the impression that they weakened the one in the MM2 to make it more suitable as a PC.

Then I thought about it: The bug-men can advance by character class. You toss on a few levels of whatever class will most bedevil your players (hmmm... maybe monk?), and viola, instant bad @$$.

The same holds true for almost any beastie. Even the ones that the books say advance by hit dice. We all know that the DM can add character levels to ANYthing he wants.

So, with that in mind, there probably are a bunch of nasties that may seem to be defanged (so to speak), but with judicious modifying they get MUCH worse.

Well, if you think about it, in 2e, Hellbound had character rules for fiends. So I don't buy that for the Ultroloth; you could pump him up then, and you can pump him up now. They was no good reason to gut it... especially considering that WotC is NOW (with the MMII) scrambling to cover the high CR creatures, and they just could have done so before.

 

[Jarval]

Re: Weaker? Nah!

One of the critters in the MM2 that sorta jumped out at me as having been diminished was the Thri-Kreen (piddling CR1).

What have they done to the 'Kreen to get the CR down to that? In the PsiHB web enhancement, they have a CR of 5 or 6.

 

[drnuncheon]

Re: Re: Weaker? Nah!

What have they done to the 'Kreen to get the CR down to that? In the PsiHB web enhancement, they have a CR of 5 or 6.

The big one is dropping them down to 2 HD and giving them significantly lower stats (Str +2, Dex +4, Int -2, Wis +2, Cha -4). Other changes include lower natural armor (+3 not +5), loss of improved grab and the automatic multiweapon feats, and not all thri-kreen are psionic. (Psionic thrikreen count as 2 levels higher.)

Oddly, the chatchka was depowered by one die size, but the gythka has become the absolute best double weapon ever, doing 2d6 damage (crit only 20/x2 though).

J

 

[Oracular Vision]

All of the dinosaurs are weaker, I am making my own set based on paleontology records and Skip's wonderful little article...up to about 40 now...and they will kill you, ask my sone who died from a Triceratops charge...

 

[Victim]

While Dino CRs are on the low side, they are still very dangerous as pure bruisers. I almost lost my character to a T-Rex - after it got hit with 51 crit on a spell.

I think most creatures with MR took a hit in power. 90% MR used to convey near total immunity to magic, SR 32 doesn't mean as much to a high level wizard.

 

[MerricB]

Seriously the fighter hits more often in 3e than ever (5% more of the time than in 1e) thus making the fighter based monsters hitting just as much.

Ah, but many ACs have improved, thus negating the difference!

Cheers!

 

[the Jester]

Shambling mounds were more dangerous in 2e, with their suffocation and whatnot.

Intellect devourers were MUCH more dangerous in 1e.

 

[Epametheus]

Amnizu seem to have been nerfed (they were stripped of their Imprisonment power, though that's arguably necessary).

Vrocks are a lot less impressive -- in 2E they automatically won initiative in battles; in 3E they're pretty much just a bad joke -- for elite fighting demons, they don't do much damage.

The Leonal in the MotP comes across as a lot weaker than a 2E leonal, though I don't really remember what the heck the 2E leonals could do (I think they had some form of Deflect/Dodge Missiles that worked against energy projectiles, among other things).

 

[Staffan]

I think most creatures with MR took a hit in power. 90% MR used to convey near total immunity to magic, SR 32 doesn't mean as much to a high level wizard.

Actually, that's more of a backslide. In 1e, MR was modified by 5% for each level the caster was above or below 11th.