Any New Info on Skill Encounters?

[UngeheuerLich]

Especially since it's also hard to determine what "specialised" actually is:
Max Ranks
Max Ranks + extremely good ability score
Max Ranks + Skill Focus
Max Ranks + SKill Enhancement Item +5 or higher?
Max Ranks + every synergy bonus you can get?
A combination of the above?

Compare a Fighter that is "specialised" on Intimidate (Max Ranks, Skill Focus (Intimidate), but Charisma 10) with a Rogue "specialised" on Intimidate (Max Ranks, Skill Focus (Intimidate), Bluff, Charisma 12 Circlet of Persuasion, Cloak of Charisma +2, Mogel-Item of Intimidate +5)

Even knowing the level doesn't help you.

In my opinion, specialized is defined by the bonus you have:

In my opinion 5 ranks is when you start becoming an expert in a skill, thus you get synergise bonuses out of it.

So achieving a total bonus of 5 is the first level of specialization. (take 10 gives 15 which is already a moderate task (reducing damage when jumping from a roof etc) Take 20 already beats 25 which is not too shabby)


A real NPC specialist looks like that:

expert 2
5 ranks in his specialized skill
5 ranks in at least one synergizing skill (if there is one)
skill fokus specialized skill
(if human maybe one of those +2/+2 feats)
14 in relevant attribute

so he has a bonus of at least +10 (and sometimes up to +16)

Hence, the 2nd level of specialization is having a total bonus of +10 (which is take 10 to reach 20, take 20 to reach 30)

Everything beyond that is real specialization, and you should not have more than 2 or 3 skills maxed (excluding necessary skills like spellcraft, concentration or perform)

Edit: mogel item of *** +5 shoud not be in 4e at all. I hope they will only make you trained in one skill or sets your skill to a certain score, so that specialized characters don´t need them to compete with others who are specialized. Those 3.x magic items only lead to an arm´s race and don´t add anything to the game...

 

[Nytmare]

If they are more disruptive than anyones particular table enjoys the dm and/or host has the same rule available as in every other iteration of the game "you are no longer welcome"

I don't see the benefit of having to say "no" more than once when the rule can be written so that an abusive player didn't see every skill check as a Limited Wish.

 

[Dacileva]

Well, if you want to throw in mid-level magic items onto a 2nd level character, I'm sure I can pump the 4e Diplomacy bonus higher, too... But to be pedantic your example has some mistakes and is missing some bonuses. 5 ranks max, +4 cha, +4 bluff/SM synergy, +2 half-elf, +3 skill focus = +18

+20, actually. +6 synergy, from Bluff/Sense Motive/Knowledge (nobility & royalty)

One more level, and it becomes +23 (1 more rank, Negotiator feat), completely core, with no magic items, and it just goes up from there. There's a post on r.g.f.d. from a few years ago that details how to get a +153 Diplomacy at level 20 (+118 permanent, +122 up to 18 times daily, and +153 once daily, with an extra +2 against good creatures), with references and cites to all books used (WotC books only).

As for the rest of this thread, I've found the discussion extremely interesting, folks! Threads like this one are the only thing keeping me from abandoning online discussion of 4e completely.

 

[TwinBahamut]

It would seem to me that sometimes if you want the challenge to BE a challenge, you have to make the "easy" check base higher.

We're a 10th level party. They would ALL pass easy checks no problem and it would be kinda boring.

I think that the skill challenge system is probably designed to scale as a party goes up in level. In 4E, all skills will increase at 1/2 per level, so I am willing to bet that DCs for a skill challenge will scale appropriately. Based on that logic, if the DC for an Easy Level 1 Challenge is 10, then an Easy Level 10 Challenge would be DC 15, Level 20 would be DC 20, and Level 30 would be DC 25. The level of the challenge, rather than being based on the party level, is based on an absolute difficulty scale. Thus, crossing a particular desert may be a level 5 challenge, but a supernatural lava field may be a level 15 challenge. Crossing the desert would be trivial for a party who could cross the lava field, simply because their basic abilities have grown.

That was all just a guess, but I think it is a system that would work well.

 

[hbarsquared]

The level of the challenge, rather than being based on the party level, is based on an absolute difficulty scale. Thus, crossing a particular desert may be a level 5 challenge, but a supernatural lava field may be a level 15 challenge. Crossing the desert would be trivial for a party who could cross the lava field, simply because their basic abilities have grown.

That was all just a guess, but I think it is a system that would work well.

This is exactly what I predict, as well.

Plus, this fits into the "modular" nature of 4E encounter design. I can envision an "Elite 10th Level Skill Challenge" used in conjunction with three 10th Level monsters for a Level 10 Encounter. Or somesuch. Just like traps and hazards have been integrated into the encounter system, I imagine skill challenges might be, as well.

 

[hbarsquared]

For those running the demos, now, any new information to add regarding the specifics of Skill Encounters?