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5E Any of these Feat changes look too good?

BlivetWidget

Explorer
My only suggestion is that I would suggest you let those who take Ritual Caster just be able to pick any mental ability stat to use for their ritual casting, rather than be forced to use the stat of the spell list they pick.

Does this actually matter? What rituals actually use a stat? I'm not saying there aren't any, but all the rituals I can think of just happen without a check or save.

Yep, but of course not just fire, but whatever damage type you select. Our group actually liked the idea of being able to penetrate the immunity of things like giants, elementals, and dragons. However, they would still be resistant to it-- so it helps if a caster doesn't have other options ready at the time, but hardly solves the immunity issue completely IMO.

The reason they specifically brought up fire as a damage type is that 5e spells are balanced around fire being the most resisted element in the game. So in general, fire spells are more powerful than spells of other damage types to account for this. Elemental Adept (Fire) is already core to certain sorcerer builds. It's tempting for a wizard (what with fire spells being so powerful), but it's a resistible temptation since wizards are often at their best when buffing or using battlefield control spells. Changing immunity to resistance would probably make this mandatory for evokers. Which means it's too good.

I'm not saying I don't like it. I do like it. I just think it's too obviously going to encourage a fire build. I think if you want to work around immunity I would probably make that its own feat with a prerequisite of Elemental Adept. Elemental Master or something. Maybe you even take reduced damage from the element at that point. I haven't thought it out, but you get the idea.
 

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dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
My only suggestion is that I would suggest you let those who take Ritual Caster just be able to pick any mental ability stat to use for their ritual casting, rather than be forced to use the stat of the spell list they pick
Actually, we are keeping the prerequisite of INT or WIS 13, but otherwise the ability score does not matter at all because it is never, ever used in any of the ritual spells. You never make an attack roll or need a spell save DC or anything related to it.
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
What rituals actually use a stat? I'm not saying there aren't any, but all the rituals I can think of just happen without a check or save.
None that I found. I could have missed some since I don't have all the books, but there are none I know of.

Elemental Adept (Fire) is already core to certain sorcerer builds.
Which builds? I know Sorcerer's have Elemental Affinity for the Draconic Bloodline subclass, but that can be other elemental damage sources, not just fire.

Changing immunity to resistance would probably make this mandatory for evokers. Which means it's too good.
I don't know. It might seem like that but so far we've only had one caster take this feat RAW, and it wasn't until 12th level.

I mean very few creatures really have immunity until higher levels, and frankly every war-type caster we have always has at least two damage sources for spells (fire and lightning, or cold and thunder, or necrotic and acid or whatever) because many creatures do have resistance anyway and it is an easier way to not have to worry about it. Also, why would I do a fire spell for half damage when I could do a lightning spell for full damage? Really, this making immunity into resistance is just allowing you to do half damage-- instead of other options which you could do full.

If we change it and see too many "gotta have it" happening, we'll change it back. Personally, the 1's become 2's is lame IMO also.
 

Mort

Hero
Supporter
Well, the title says it all. Do you think any of these adjustments to the feats in the PHB make them too good or powerful?

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Most of these feats see very little use in our game and many of them seem weak to us, so these are our proposals.

I'm worried a couple might be too strong now. Thoughts?

Little late but here are my thoughts:

Charger: Fine .
Defensive Duelist: Fine and I like it
Dungeon Delver: Fine
Durable: Fine, but very situational except for a Frenzied Barb
Elemental adept: I like it
Heavy Armor Mastery: A necessary change
Inspiring leader: likely fine but the bard in my group has this and gets lots of use out of it. Worry is for classes like bard it becomes a near no brainer.
Keen Mind: Fine, decent flavor - certainly not too strong.
Martial Adept: Decent, better than the original but still not up to the top tiers (which actually may be a good thing)
Mounted Combatant: Not sure - where mounted combat is a thing it may be very strong - especially with a lance. Otherwise who knows.
Ritual Caster: Interesting change, I find ritual caster already worth it in some campaigns this would make it pretty good. Though not over the top.
Savage attacker: Ok - or at least from near useless to possible.
Sharp shooter: Frankly I'd just go with the nerf without the extra ability - the feat is THAT strong. But with the nerf, I don't think the extra ability is way, way too much - just a bit too much.
Weapon Master: Makes this an odd feat - martials may now want to take this after they've maxed out STR or DEX because getting a plus to hit is tough and in some cases this would be equivalent to a +3 to an ability score. That said, weapon master needs something not sure if this is it.
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
First, thanks for your thoughts.

Mounted Combatant: Not sure - where mounted combat is a thing it may be very strong - especially with a lance. Otherwise who knows.

Because this is limited to only one attack per turn, we haven't seen it being too strong. We've been using it as a general rule for mounted combat, and I thought it might better limited to the feat instead of anyone who is mounted. Also, because mounted combat is not an all-the-time thing I think it should be okay. But, a lot of people are commenting on it so I've noted it for discussion with our group.

Sharp shooter: Frankly I'd just go with the nerf without the extra ability - the feat is THAT strong. But with the nerf, I don't think the extra ability is way, way too much - just a bit too much.

Originally, we didn't have the new benefit until our game yesterday. The player who was play-testing sharp shooter had to make a shot in a windy, raining storm and I told him he would have disadvantage. Since his target was only about 40 feet away, he asked if he could use SS to remove the disadvantage because none of the other benefits applied. We decided to go with it for the time being and I thought I'd add it today for feedback from the community.

What do you think if we changed it to:
1. It removes disadvantage to attacks made at Long range.
2. Within normal range, you can:
A. ignore half and three-quarter cover, or
B. ignore disadvantage due to an environmental effect, or
C. accept a -5 to attack roll for a +10 to damage

This way, only benefit you can apply to long range is to get rid of the disadvantage. If you are in normal range, you can "aim" or "steady your shot" to gain one of the three benefits (2A-C) to the attack.

It is a minor change, but it prevents you from applying benefits 2A-C to a long range shot (instead of removing the disadvantage).

Weapon Master: Makes this an odd feat - martials may now want to take this after they've maxed out STR or DEX because getting a plus to hit is tough and in some cases this would be equivalent to a +3 to an ability score. That said, weapon master needs something not sure if this is it.
While it might seem odd, something no one as commented on is that although this gives you proficiency with all weapons, that includes improvised weapons, which otherwise Tavern Brawler is your only option. The additional +1 to attack rolls is good, but since it is only with one weapon it isn't too strong I don't think.

One option I was considering is weapon master increases the damage die one stage or maybe allows a crit on 19's? I don't know, the +1 to attack rolls seemed the simplest bump...
 

Mort

Hero
Supporter
Because this is limited to only one attack per turn, we haven't seen it being too strong. We've been using it as a general rule for mounted combat, and I thought it might better limited to the feat instead of anyone who is mounted. Also, because mounted combat is not an all-the-time thing I think it should be okay. But, a lot of people are commenting on it so I've noted it for discussion with our group.

I missed the once per turn, that's not so bad. Make sure to enforce the standard weapon only - no sneak attack or holy weapon shenanigans.


Originally, we didn't have the new benefit until our game yesterday. The player who was play-testing sharp shooter had to make a shot in a windy, raining storm and I told him he would have disadvantage. Since his target was only about 40 feet away, he asked if he could use SS to remove the disadvantage because none of the other benefits applied. We decided to go with it for the time being and I thought I'd add it today for feedback from the community.

What do you think if we changed it to:
1. It removes disadvantage to attacks made at Long range.
2. Within normal range, you can:
A. ignore half and three-quarter cover, or
B. ignore disadvantage due to an environmental effect, or
C. accept a -5 to attack roll for a +10 to damage

This way, only benefit you can apply to long range is to get rid of the disadvantage. If you are in normal range, you can "aim" or "steady your shot" to gain one of the three benefits (2A-C) to the attack.

It is a minor change, but it prevents you from applying benefits 2A-C to a long range shot (instead of removing the disadvantage).

I like the change. Still a strong feat, but no longer ridiculous.

While it might seem odd, something no one as commented on is that although this gives you proficiency with all weapons, that includes improvised weapons, which otherwise Tavern Brawler is your only option. The additional +1 to attack rolls is good, but since it is only with one weapon it isn't too strong I don't think.

One option I was considering is weapon master increases the damage die one stage or maybe allows a crit on 19's? I don't know, the +1 to attack rolls seemed the simplest bump...

I actually like the proficiency with improvised weapons - I like seeing more of them in use.

Increasing the weapon die one stage is interesting - though seems adding +1 damage is a little safer. I'm wary of the crit on 19 - encourages crit fishing (my group isn't the type so wouldn't be a problem in mine, but in general).
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
I missed the once per turn, that's not so bad. Make sure to enforce the standard weapon only - no sneak attack or holy weapon shenanigans.
LOL yeah, just the weapon damage. ;)

I like the change. Still a strong feat, but no longer ridiculous.
Good. I'll add it to the notes.

I actually like the proficiency with improvised weapons - I like seeing more of them in use.

Increasing the weapon die one stage is interesting - though seems adding +1 damage is a little safer. I'm wary of the crit on 19 - encourages crit fishing (my group isn't the type so wouldn't be a problem in mine, but in general).
I like encouraging improvised weapons as well.

For the most part, increasing the damage die has an average benefit of +1 damage, and that might be an easier solution.

I am also weary of crit fishing, which is why this was originally rebuked.

FWIW, we use more of a critical "threat" style rule, that straight up critical hits on 20s. In a nutshell, our house-rule is a natural 20 allows you an additional attack, but no longer doubles damage. With smites and sneak attacks, we see way too many hits for dozens of points of damage--especially in our high-level game. It gets ridiculous sometimes... :(
 

Immoralkickass

Explorer
I think i can give some feedback on Mounted Combatant, as i am currently playing a paladin that is often mounted on his Find Steed.

The feat feels like a crutch to keep the mount alive, especially from area effect damage. If I weren't a paladin, my mount would have died more often without my aura. The problem is, the mount do not level up or gain stats, so it gets harder to keep it alive as you go to higher level tier. Advantage on creatures smaller than your mount is nice, but it means your party thinks you are delegated to fighting the mooks instead of the big boss. But the same problem applies, as you level up, the enemies you face are bigger and badder, so the feat certainly has a diminishing value.

The few times my mount died, i was just thinking, a GWM guy would never lose his main feat unless he lost his weapon, which was very unlikely. Their feat also get stronger as they gain more Strength, get a better weapon and is more versatile. I'm not saying Mounted Combatant needs to be buffed more, it just needs buffs in the right place.
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
I'm not saying Mounted Combatant needs to be buffed more, it just needs buffs in the right place.
A lot of our experiences mirror yours.

Do you think the "charging" ability gives a nice enough bump to keep it viable at higher levels? The defensive aspects for the mount are great, but as mounted combat is lack-luster in 5E we feel this helps.
 


Immoralkickass

Explorer
A lot of our experiences mirror yours.

Do you think the "charging" ability gives a nice enough bump to keep it viable at higher levels? The defensive aspects for the mount are great, but as mounted combat is lack-luster in 5E we feel this helps.
Your buff would be nice for my character, but not so great for a Cavalier Fighter. I could possibly one shot a strong monster if my crit smite damage get doubled. (Also, my party has a Grave Cleric, so can it get quadrupled?) But it won't solve any of the issues i mentioned above.
Its funny because i would suggest adding advantage on saves against being knocked off the mount (because when the mount get targeted by enemies you cant force it to attack you), but that would be redundant for Cavaliers.
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
so, other than confusing me in relation to your dislike of increasing the ability scores of PCs, these all seem fine.
LOL, oh you know me too well! :p

No, I am not a proponent of ASI bumps, but a lot of these feats find no or little love in our games or seem a bit unbalanced (too good or not good enough). Also, alas, I am not the only person in our group and many of the others feel there are not enough half-feats; or more that some of these really are on the power-level of half-feats but without an ASI to go along with them.

So, we went through all the feats and added some ASIs to the ones we felt might warrant them and I told them I would post them for feedback here.

In short, this wasn't all my idea. ;)
 

Mistwell

Legend
The change to inspiring leader is the only one that strikes me as excessive. That feats no help, and certainly not a buff to charisma!
 

Rabulias

Adventurer
None that I found. I could have missed some since I don't have all the books, but there are none I know.
Contact other plane requires the caster make a DC 15 Intelligence saving throw to use the spell (and avoid 6d6 psychic damage and temporary insanity).
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
Contact other plane requires the caster make a DC 15 Intelligence saving throw to use the spell (and avoid 6d6 psychic damage and temporary insanity).
True, but an Intelligence saving throw has nothing whatsoever to do with the spellcasting ability score.

Any character of any class casting that spell would have to make the same save.
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
The change to inspiring leader is the only one that strikes me as excessive. That feats no help, and certainly not a buff to charisma!
A few others have commented on that as well and I have noted it.

I think we will do one of two things:

1. Keep it RAW and remove the CHA +1
2. Keep the CHA +1, but allow the temp HP only after a long rest, not a short rest.

I think the second option is better over all, but we'll see what the group thinks. Do you think the second option would still be excessive?
 

Immoralkickass

Explorer
Also, IMO the best fix to Durable is to combine it with Tough and call it a day.

Durable is one of those feats so bad nobody even bother to look at it. And i can guarantee that combining it won't change people's opinion on Tough.
 


Stalker0

Legend
Also, IMO the best fix to Durable is to combine it with Tough and call it a day.

Durable is one of those feats so bad nobody even bother to look at it. And i can guarantee that combining it won't change people's opinion on Tough.

Yep, tough is a good feat, but honestly if you added durable in it, it would change so little I doubt anyone's rating of toughness would suddenly go up.
 

Stalker0

Legend
I think we will do one of two things:

1. Keep it RAW and remove the CHA +1
2. Keep the CHA +1, but allow the temp HP only after a long rest, not a short rest.

I think the second option is better over all, but we'll see what the group thinks. Do you think the second option would still be excessive?

I think number 2 would be change for change sake. Again, the feat is solid....if your particular party doesn't want it at the moment, no problem....but at some point a character will come that will love this feat as written. It really needs no adjustment.
 

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