D&D 5E Any suggestions for the Suggestion?

[Proteusz]

Hi, I am still a newbie to 5e and having problems adjudicating Suggestion spell (or even spells in general). First of all, does creature succeeding in a saving throw against a spell that does not have an effect on failure knows that a spellcaster tried something nasty? Secondly, is verbal component in Suggestion spell separate incantation set apart from the actual suggestion? I am asking because my player used it repeatedly to his benefit and I am wondering if I am doing the right thing allowing him for so much freedom with the spell.

 

[trentonjoe]

The way I rule is:

If an NPC makes it saves (and it is reasonably intelligent) it knows a spell was just cast.

I make the "suggestion" the verbal component.

I also make it an easy Spellcraft or Knowledge (arcana) check to identify the spell.

 

[trentonjoe]

I am asking because my player used it repeatedly to his benefit and I am wondering if I am doing the right thing allowing him for so much freedom with the spell.

It's a bit of a game changer. If you want a PC to stop casting it ALL THE TME, their needs to be some pretty serious consequences to having it fail.

 

[MasterTrancer]

Since many spells explicitly mention that "on a successful save, the target knows a spell has been cast" and Suggestion doesn't I'd rule that in this case the spell recipient isn't aware of the casting per se.

For me though the spell just lends strength to your suggestion, which is uttered so that the spell target hears it; so if (s)he saves (s)he could wonder who the PC is, and why keeps giving unsolicited suggestions. And, of course, react accordingly.

 

[Moorcrys]

I lean on the side of letting the target know that they were hit by some sort of spell. That makes the enchanter's ability to memory wipe against hostile charms more effective.

 

[Bupp]

This is not the spell you were looking for.

 

[Saeviomagy]

It's a bit of a game changer. If you want a PC to stop casting it ALL THE TME, their needs to be some pretty serious consequences to having it fail.

They don't cast it all the time because they have limited spell slots.

Personally I go with how I imagine a save against it would work in a movie. The target might get an arcana check, and he definitely asks you why you're talking so slowly and asking him to do ridiculous things, and if he's someone of sufficient importance (like a king) in a magical world, he's probably had mental resistance training, and will KNOW why you're talking slowly and asking him to do ridiculous things.

 

[Proteusz]

Thanks guys for Your advice, but maybe to make things clear I will describe the use of Suggestion I had the most problems with. My player wanted to know, whether the NPC was really who he claimed to be, and made a suggestion "Tell me please, who sent You" (as far as I understand this is a proper use of the spell, as it suggest the action not directly harmful to the NPC). NPC succeeded on a saving throw however and this opened a can full of worms. Does the PC know, that his spell failed? If not, does the NPC know he was being influenced and lie, tell the truth nonetheless or act in the other manner (eg. "Why are You so suspicious of me? I have doubts considering Your good intentions"). If the PC does not know that the spell failed, can he suspect a lie from the NPC? Then I also glossed over the description of verbal components and it seemed to me, that the effect of the spell (in this case the suggestion itself) is separate from incantation. That's why Sorcerer can cast spells without it (silent spell metamagic). Plus Suggestion already has material component built in (but I suppose You can rule, that grabing the component in Your pouch or under the cape is sufficient and won't raise any suspicions).

So, having this questions in mind, I ruled back than, that we would stick to the "Jedi mind trick" image of the spell that we had in our heads (PC knows if the spell fails, NPC doesn't know he was being influenced, suggestion is the verbal component). But is this really how the spell was designed? And is loosing spell slots really sufficient penalty for this spell failure?

 

[Roger]

Hmmm I'd probably rule that the spell fails and everyone knows, more or less. The target knows something has happened; whether or not they ascribe it to magic or to something else is up to their own experiences and brainpower.

Possibly not quite as much fun as leaving it all mysterious, but it looks about right from here.



Cheers,
Roger

 

[Thyrwyn]

Opposed Wisdom(Insight) vs Charisma(Deception) rolls?