Anyone else disappointed objects still have hit points?

[Rith the Wanderer]

Yeah I think a good rule is, if your weapon isn't harder than the object, its going to break first. Unless your a total bruiser (epic!) your not breaking through that door with your bare hands.

 

[DM_Blake]

The key to 4e though, is common sense. If I had a player try to break down a stone wall with their quarterstaff (and they were not some kind of godling or titan), I would tell them, "I'll get back to you" and go on to the other players, coming back several minutes later with "Ok, after several minutes of work, you have managed to chip a small piece of stone from the wall with your repeated poundings, rubbed your hands raw, and are worn out. Mark off a healing surge. That wall looks like it is not going anywhere. Perhaps you need better tools than a stick?"

Ok, perhaps not that snarky (it depends on the player though ), but you get my point. No GM in their right mind is going to allow you to break a stone wall with a quarterstaff. You just have to apply some common sense to the rules.

You could use this argument for every rule in the book.

Use common sense to figure out how likely you are to hit that orc with your sword. Use common sense to figure out how many sword hits it takes to kill the orc. Use common sense to figure out whether you can disable that trap.

In fact, with enough common sense, we don't need rules at all.

But, a rule system is put in place to elimitate judgment calls, remove the chance that your common sense sees things differently than mine, and ensure that our games run smoothly without 1 player (DM) arbitrarily ruling something differently than we expect and leading to dissatisfaction or disputes or arguments because his common sense is different than mine.

 

[Grazzt]

No GM in their right mind is going to allow you to break a stone wall with a quarterstaff. You just have to apply some common sense to the rules.

This. I don't need everything spelled out in the books. If the player truly wants to try, go ahead. Doesn't mean it will work though (and in the case above- not a chance in hell).

Common sense says he'll be going shopping eventually to replace the staff, sword, or whatever he broke trying to hack his way through a stone wall.

 

[tafkamhokie]

This. I don't need everything spelled out in the books. If the player truly wants to try, go ahead. Doesn't mean it will work though (and in the case above- not a chance in hell).

Common sense says he'll be going shopping eventually to replace the staff, sword, or whatever he broke trying to hack his way through a stone wall.

I guess my real problem comes when you look at the non-extreme examples.

Can you break down a strong wooden door with an axe? Sure...but it would still take you a lot longer than the 2 rounds that a 20 hp door would indicate it should take. What about with a pick? A mace? A dagger? A longsword? A halberd? A spiked chain?

Now upgrade that door to iron. Can you still get through it with an axe? Common sense does not really answer that question. You need to know the quality of the steel in the axe, the quality of the door, how much the axewielder knows about door construction and where to hit it for best effect, how accurate the axewielder is at hitting what he is aiming at, etc. You are now well beyond the realm of common sense.

As for the stone block...clearly a pick should allow you to chip away at it, albiet slowly. But what about an axe? At what point have you fuctionally destroyed the axe?

You can say just use common sense. But the party is in a 10x10 room that is filling with water and they have 2 minutes to break through an iron door since no one in the party took thievery and the open lock ritual takes too long to cast. Common sense does not quite tell me what you can and cannot do within a tight timeframe.

What I would rather have seen is a simple break DC plus some rules for conducting a skill challenge to boost your chances to break it instead of just giving objects hit points. I think I may do it that way in my game.