Anyone else find this really irritating?

[Azzy]

No, it isn't.

People complain about paying for the books, the equivalent of buying a CD, and then having to pay for it again to view them on D&Dbeyond, the equivalent of listening to them on your device via iTunes.... WHICH CAN BE PERFORMED WITH NO ADDITIONAL MONEY CHARGE. Yes, you need to upload them, and yes - depending upon how you do it, there are some limits - but the core is this: Pay for content once, use it digitally or from the original source material with no additional cost. Any other elements of this arguments are essentially meaningless clinging to the desire to be right.

Yes, we got that. But the posts you were responding to were delivering a different point, as explained. So, calm down Beavis.

Also, a more apt comparison of D&DBeyond to iTunes would be trying to upload my cassette collection to iTunes. Not so easy as ripping CDs.

 

[Azzy]

And IF I had been able to get access to the content I had already paid for I would have adopted it. I might have even paid a few bucks a month for the privilege. But I didn't want to re-purchase the books I already owned.

I get you. For me, I wouldn't have a problem re-purchasing my books if they were less expensive on D&D Beyond (and, people, don't go on about the bundle deal with its high upfront cost). D&D Beyond is a great resource with a lot of great functionality, but it's just not worth the price tag for me.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Yes, we got that. But the posts you were responding to were delivering a different point, as explained. So, calm down Beavis.

Also, a more apt comparison of D&DBeyond to iTunes would be trying to upload my cassette collection to iTunes. Not so easy as ripping CDs.

If that had been the requirement, you can bet Apple would have tried to come up with some technology that optically recognized your cassettes and then let you access digital versions online. The record companies wouldn't have gone for that, at least not in 2001, but Apple would have tried.

D&DB & WotC didn't even try.

 

[Guest 6801328]

DDB also adds a ton of value to the product for free. Moreso than iTunes does, by a wide margin.

Totally agree!

iTunes is fine, but it’s much less useful than Spotify, IMO.

Literally the only difference is the amount of work involved in adding your already purchased content to the service. Ripping a CD is easy, inputting the book data is...well also extremely easy, but more time consuming. Well, that, and the fact that DDB is incredibly useful, and comes with a character builder, and makes all your game data into a single integrated service that cross references, with things like hyperlinks and tool tips, so you’re also getting an enormous increase in utility over the alternatives.

It seems to me you are reinforcing my point, which suggests we still have a disconnect.

D&DBeyond is great. They could *easily* take my money as a subscription service, and probably (over the long term) get me to spend more money than I'm willing to do up-front to re-buy content. Insisting that I do so is just a complete failure of both imagination and psychology.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Totally agree!



It seems to me you are reinforcing my point, which suggests we still have a disconnect.

D&DBeyond is great. They could *easily* take my money as a subscription service, and probably (over the long term) get me to spend more money than I'm willing to do up-front to re-buy content. Insisting that I do so is just a complete failure of both imagination and psychology.

I get where you’re coming from, but I don’t know if there is a good way around the issue that hasbro will be ok with. Perhaps a system where you can get a unique confirmation code with a purchase, and unlock things that way, but IMO it would still be reasonable for them to charge *something* for unlocking products that way, even if it’s jsut like 10$ per book.

Ultimately, I think their hope is that improving the homebrew system enough, and making it clear enough to folks that they can input official material via that system, will bridge the remaining gap.

If not, they have enough subscribers and purchasers that the gap isn’t going to hurt them overmuch, but I do hope they get it closer to where you and other folks are incentivized to make the switch.

 

[LordEntrails]

Upthread I got some snarky responses about how D&DBeyond did all this hard work and they deserve to get paid for it. Sure. And IF I had been able to get access to the content I had already paid for I would have adopted it. I might have even paid a few bucks a month for the privilege. But I didn't want to re-purchase the books I already owned.

You can get the access to the content you already own, you can get access to content you own in a printed version in a digital version for free. And that seems to be your complaint. So, again, you think all the hard work should have been done for free. And, it wasn't a snarky comment, it was a very real, serious, and genuine comment. Pointing out that you are expecting to get something that requires work, effort and cost for less than what the people who did the work are willing to sell it for.

So, no, iTunes doesn't give me the music I already own; I need to do a little bit of work to upload it. But they do give me something related to my CDs...additional functionality...for free, and they leverage that utility to then sell me more stuff. Which totally worked.

WotC and D&DBeyond didn't do that, and I have absolutely zero reservations about accessing illegal version of the content I've paid for. And I think there are countless people out there like me. I bought Xanathar's, for example, fully expecting to barely reference the physical copy. So you may conclude that, "Well, WotC got my money one way or another." Except that they and D&DBeyond are missing out on opportunity to upsell more services to me.

So, your not willing to do the work to convert the WotC content you already own to DDB or another digital format because you feel entitled to a digital version for free because you bought a printed version. You feel "they" are missing out on an opportunity to do what? Give you a digital version for free? Because you already have the opportunity to upsell services to you. But really, your only complaint is that either it costs too much, or it takes too much work to do it yourself.

And I'm sure their are lots of people willing to do what you do, no matter what price WotC, DDB, FG puts on their products, it will ALWAYS be too expensive for those that are willing to access it illegally (i.e. steal it).

If that had been the requirement, you can bet Apple would have tried to come up with some technology that optically recognized your cassettes and then let you access digital versions online. The record companies wouldn't have gone for that, at least not in 2001, but Apple would have tried.

D&DB & WotC didn't even try.

How do you know Apple didn't try? You don't.
How do you know WotC didn't try? You don't.
Neither company makes public all of the opportunities and possible market endeavors that they spend time and money looking into. Just because they didn't say they were trying, or that they tried and failed, doesn't mean they didn't try.
Besides, maybe they decided they couldn't, or maybe they decided it wasn't a good business decisions for a thousand possible reasons.

It seems to me you are reinforcing my point, which suggests we still have a disconnect.

D&DBeyond is great. They could *easily* take my money as a subscription service, and probably (over the long term) get me to spend more money than I'm willing to do up-front to re-buy content. Insisting that I do so is just a complete failure of both imagination and psychology.

Yea, the disconnect is that you don't get it. You can upload all your your content from your purchased books to DDB just like you can upload your CDs to iTunes. Apparently you don't get that or don't like the effort involved. Sure, it's much more time consuming to upload your PHB to DDB than it is to rip a CD to iTunes, but it can be done for free, if you want. Just like I can upload the PHB to Fantasy Grounds if I want.

You can convert your printed PHB to the supported digital formats for FREE if you want to. You don't have to re-buy the content, but if you want it in DDB or FG and $25 of your money is worth the time it takes to convert it on your own, that's your judgement call.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Yea, the disconnect is that you don't get it.

And your next sentence is...

You can upload all your your content from your purchased books to DDB just like you can upload your CDs to iTunes.

Somebody around here doesn't get it.

 

[Scary]

1E could use some improvement too! How many times have you flipped through looking for a magic user spell only to find " see [cleric] or [druid] spell of the same name" and were annoyed with the extra page flipping! Clerics had it great because their spells were listed first. Other classes had to reference another classes spell list.

Google sheets!! An electronic spell list, easily filtered for whichever class you are playing. Basically your spell book once you print it out

 

[LordEntrails]

And your next sentence is...

Somebody around here doesn't get it.

So I don't get your point. Yes there is a disconnect. But your smug and obtuse statement certainly doesn't clear anything up.

Here's what I understand, please correct my misunderstanding(s);
You are complaining that you have to re-buy the D&D books in digital format and you are not willing to pay for them again.

You say that iTunes lets you put music from your CDs into iTunes for free.

We are pointing out that you can put your D&D books into DDB & FG for free. You're not acknowledging that.

You are saying that since WotC wants you to re-buy the books in digital format you find that morally objectionable and therefor that justifies your using illegally distributed digital versions of the D&D content.

 

[Guest 6801328]

So I don't get your point. Yes there is a disconnect. But your smug and obtuse statement certainly doesn't clear anything up.

Here's what I understand, please correct my misunderstanding(s);
You are complaining that you have to re-buy the D&D books in digital format and you are not willing to pay for them again.

You say that iTunes lets you put music from your CDs into iTunes for free.

We are pointing out that you can put your D&D books into DDB & FG for free. You're not acknowledging that.

Yes, I've acknowledged it several times by comparing it to typing in your music note by note. Yet you think this is a valid comparison or good solution?

You are saying that since WotC wants you to re-buy the books in digital format you find that morally objectionable and therefor that justifies your using illegally distributed digital versions of the D&D content.

What? Where did I say it's morally objectionable? I said it's a business decision that doesn't give me what I want, and it drives people to unauthorized sources, and they end up missing out on potential revenue. (Maybe they've done their analysis and concluded that getting a ton of money from fewer D&DB users has a higher net than less revenue from more users.)

In the absence of a sanctioned version, the only justification I need for using unauthorized digital versions is Fair Use doctrine. The circumstances may not be entirely legal, but it is 100% ethical. You yourself agree that if I were to type all that stuff in, I would be free to use it electronically. How exactly does letting somebody else type it in for me change that? Sure, the guy typing it in may be violating copyright, but I'm not. And, again, I'm not paying him for it.

Maybe the confusion here is that you think I've been saying they (WotC) have made an immoral decision? Not at all.