Anyone else likes Robert Jordan better than Tolkien?

[drothgery]

Here is how I view the issue:

I hate that LotR wasn't as easy a read as The Hobbit.

Well, one out of three ain't bad.

I hate that Jordan has written so many books

There's nothing wrong with Jordan writing 10 novels after Eye of the World. The problem is that the seventh or eighth wasn't the last book of the main cycle of The Wheel of Time.

I hate that Martin has written so few.

There's no accounting for taste.

 

[ConnorSB]

Well, one out of theee ain't bad.


There's nothing wrong with Jordan writing 10 novels after Eye of the World. The problem is that the seventh or eighth wasn't the last book of the main cycle of The Wheel of Time.


There's no accounting for taste.

Wait... what?

I think the idea I was trying to get across was that I think things would be much better if George RR Martin had written as many books as Jordan has. That is, in addition to the 3 good ones we have now. Like, I want that date in 10ish years when Martin finishes A Song of Ice and Fire to be right now, not in 10 years.

And I wish Jordan's books were condensed to 3 or 4 ones. Like... Martin and Jordan should switch book counts, but maintain thier current level of writing quality (The 3 Jordan books would just be better editted than the current 11, pared down to something, well, readable).

EDIT: Here's what I'm trying to say:

Wheel of Time could have used a lot fewer words and could have gotten to the point.

A Song of Ice and fire is amazing and needs for there to be more words written- Martin needs to produce book four, and book five and....

 

[drothgery]

I think you're missing a critical piece of information here.

I think Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire is mediocre at best, and I can't understand how much praise is heaped on the series, especially vis as vis Jordan's Wheel of Time. Criticizing Jordan relative to Guy Kay, who's the best crafter of prose in modern fantasy, or Steven Brust, who keeps every novel full of action from the start to the end, or Robin Hobb, who's created a truly original universe, or Steven Erikson, who's redefined what a setting with epic scope is -- that, I get. Relative to Martin? I don't see it.

 

[ASH]

I think you're missing a critical piece of information here.

I think Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire is mediocre at best, and I can't understand how much praise is heaped on the series, especially vis as vis Jordan's Wheel of Time. Criticizing Jordan relative to Guy Kay, who's the best crafter of prose in modern fantasy, or Steven Brust, who keeps every novel full of action from the start to the end, or Robin Hobb, who's created a truly original universe, or Steven Erikson, who's redefined what a setting with epic scope is -- that, I get. Relative to Martin? I don't see it.

I have to disagree with you.. I think that ASoIaF is a better series than WoT is. Perhaps, had i recieved the same feeling after the last 5 WoT books, that I had after the first 5, but i did not, he lost it. At some point the story that was neat and the world that was complex just got silly and boring to me. Its all a matter of taste. I have not read Guy Kay, Robin Hobb, Steven Erikson, or Steven Burst, so perhaps that could discount my opnion in your eyes. I still think that Martin is a great author, and I know more than a few that agree with me.

 

[jdavis]

-Finally, the ratio of beautiful women is much in favor of Jordan

How would you know? Because he described them beautiful? They are writing on a page any beauty they may have is the beauty you ascribe to them when you read the description. Crazy women, intense women, deep women, shallow women, women who have whole chapters written about them taking a bath, those I'll buy, but beautiful? they are written characters not visual ones, besides it makes it sound like you are talking about a cheap romance novel.

Jordan lost me with book ten "The Crossroads of I've got a house payment due, buy my book". What a pathetic joke on his loyal fans that one was.

 

[Orius]

I enjoyed The New Spring. It made the world seem a more alive, that not everything revolved around Rand, even though it does. :\ That makes no sense , what I am trying to say is that I enjoyed a pre-Rand world. I would recomend it even if you have not read any of the others.

I see he finally expanded it into a full-length novel. I read about a year ago he was interested in doing that, as well as a couple of other prequels.

I read the "New Spring" novella that was in Legends, or whatever that compilation was from a few years ago. It was a pretty good, self-contained story and the

Spoiler

scene where Moiraine encounters Cadsuane

is certainly worth the read.

He has mentioned that he is doing a total of 3 prequels, and hopes to finish with a total of 12 main books, but is not ruling out 13. He also mentioned that he originaly thought he could do the whole story in 6 books.

How many books has he been saying there's only 2 or 3 left?

Still, I have read that he knows how the story is supposed to end, so I'm not as cynical as some.

 

[Taelorn76]

Still, I have read that he knows how the story is supposed to end, so I'm not as cynical as some.

Yeah, he mentioned it in the interviews linked above that he has known the ending of the WoT series for the past 20 years.

 

[drothgery]

How many books has he been saying there's only 2 or 3 left?

Still, I have read that he knows how the story is supposed to end, so I'm not as cynical as some.

He was saying "at least three more books" from about the post-Fires of Heaven (book 5) period to the post-Winter's Heart signings. He started saying "at least two more, and almost certainly no more than three more [not counting the prequels]" with the post-Crossroads of Twilight signings and interviews. For myself, I can't figure out how enough happened in CoT to have any effect on the number of books it will take to finish the series.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

At around book 6 I started skipping whole chapters. The array of characters were too many, their stories too minor and I felt no empathy. I finished book 8 and 9 and actually skipped 1/2 the pages (300 pages each) because I can't tolerate Nynaeve, Elaine, Aviendha and some others. Even Rand has become tiring.

Oh yeah, RJ has got his favourite characters suffering badly of invincible-itis. I believe nothing can threaten them.

Other than the waffling, I think the series would have been improved with a bit less romance being thrown into every single relationship.

RJ would be the better author if he had an editor who had the power to say "no".

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

Well, Tolkien wasn't your conventional, traditional fiction writers. A professor of language and literature does not make him a story writer. Perhaps it was luck and opportunity that allow him to go down in history as being the creator of modern fantasy genre, and the father of fantasy literature.

* ducks for cover from Fundamental Tolkien Purists *

Right you are REG. Though I would have to say that of the two I prefer Tolkien. One reason is because I am biased - no sense in covering that up. But I love Tolkien's style; it lends a versimilitude to his world, much as Jordan's style does to his, or Martin's to his, etc. Tolkien's writing is almost Beowulfian at times, obviously from his studies as a professor of Anglo Saxon and language. The 3rd Age is a time for epic heroics, a time of great evil and ultimate good. Tolkien gives us that in his style as well as story.

The funny thing is, I think you'll find professional novel-writers telling you that both of them were poor writers. It's not something they studied. Didn't RJ go to the Citadel and earn his Masters in Physics? But again, they're among the most popular of fantasy authors.

A few people have brought up the old adage "it's a matter of taste." While I think that's all well and good, I think taste can be turned into analysis. If you grill someone long enough and hard enough they can tell you why they like something or dislike something.

For instance, while I enjoy RJ's colorful style and consistent usage of metaphors that give me a wonderfully clear picture of his world, I dislike his characters, specifically the female ones. Their is a real elitism dividing the sexes in his world which, while somewhat representative of our own world, no one deviates from. I've only lived for 21 years and I know there are plenty of people that do not adhere to this kind of "battle of the sexes." In a world like RJ's, I find that hard to believe as well.

His plots bother me as well. It's interesting and admirable that he's created so many characters; however, readers have rights too, and creating plots, counter-plots, idosyncratic plots, counter-minute-idiosyncratic plots, etc. completely shatters those writes. I can't remember all that bs, and most readers don't have perfect recall. I'm not going to reread all ten books so I know what's going on in the eleventh. As someone mentioned, it does lend to the realism. However, the story is about the Dragon, and the small core of people that surround him: specifically Perrin, Mat, Egwene, Lan, Moiraine (sp?), and Nynaeve. Throw in the bad guys, and already that's a lot of characters to handle. I want them to develop, and them to grow; they're the ones I've become attached to and now I rarely get to see them. It's frustrating, as a reader.

That's basically why I don't like Jordan. The first three books were wonderful, but after that I believe he began to lose focus, more and more. Because he is not focused, I think his story is largely lost to the reader. I'm sure as hell lost. :\

Cheers!