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Anyone else likes Robert Jordan better than Tolkien?

barsoomcore said:
No, it's not. I mean, I agree with you, frankly I think you're too kind, but it's still a matter of taste. There's plenty of people who like Jordan just fine and they're not dummies. They just have different tastes than you.
[/i] -- out in the US this summer! Not to be missed.

I beg to differ. Liking Jordan's books is like (I guess I'm about to be somewhat unfair to Jordan) liking McDonalds food. A matter of taste.

Arguing that Jordan is a good writer is like arguing that McDonalds makes high quality food that's good for you.

Writing is not an abstract art, it's (at least to a large degree) a skill, which makes it possible to quantify it. You can either use the written word to clearly and accurately convey ideas, or you can't. Someone whose last four or five books had been a meandering mess certainly isn't doing that.
 

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Writing is an art and is wholly subjective about what's good or bad. Its not like math where 2+2=4 regardless of what your opinion of math is.

Whether Jordan's plot meanders or not is subjective. Whether its a mess or not is subjective and mere opinion.

I could easily find equal fault with the writing of authors you like.
 

mmu1 said:
Writing is not an abstract art, it's (at least to a large degree) a skill, which makes it possible to quantify it. You can either use the written word to clearly and accurately convey ideas, or you can't. Someone whose last four or five books had been a meandering mess certainly isn't doing that.
"Writing" is a skill. A lawyer writes. A journalist writes. In fact, "painting" and "sculpting" are also skills--you can get very precise and technical about either one.

However, when you deal with art and numbers, the only thing that matters is taste. "Is Jordaon a good writer" is simply the wrong question to ask; he's not writing legal briefs or the sunday times. "Is Jordan a good storyteller" (or, alternatley, "does Jordan tell a good story?") is the proper question.


As for WoT not ending--a better argument would be that good stories are whole. The story in, oh, Path of Daggers isn't all that bad, and a serial number of stories could do wonders. Jordan's problem is that he's selling parts of a grand tale that don't seperate into clear stories--and that's the biggest fault that can be laid at his feet.

OTOH, it's also an inherited fault. If you try and read Dragons of Spring Dawning or Return of the King by themselves, they simply don't make sense, because they're not whole stories.

Good fantasy, IMO, can show or tell as much as the author can convince the reader to read. It can go on in story after story, with a metaplot that doesn't end. What good fantasy cannot do and remain good, IMO, is to forget that each novel is a story unto itself, and should stand on its own--or be labeled and sold as a volume of a larger work. (Or in other words--Jordan should stop naming his novels, and just call them Wheel of Time vol. I-XII)
 

Hm, even back when I thought that RJ was the end-all-be-all fantasy writer, I still held Tolkien in higher regard. If only because Tolkien was the first fantasy book - nay first true book - that I ever read. I appreciate his world building ability more, plus Tolkien I believe, is the better writer.

Personally, I'd much rather read George RR Martin, Robin Hobb, or China Mieville than Jordan anymore. I was planning on forcing myself to reread the series (mainly in order to see if I still like it anymore), but I just can't do it. Jordan has created a very cool world - with some logic problems - which is inhabited by a dazzling array of cardboard characters, annoying characters, stupid characters, and whiny characters. More often than not, many characters possess most of these traits.

Also, Jordan has such an exhaustive list of characters, shallow plots, that I just can't care too much anymore. I really don't care why Aes Sedai-with-green-strap-on-her-neck-who-sneezes-all-the-time, dislikes Aes Sedai with piercing blue eyes who is cold and reserved. Another problem is that many of the characters aren't defined by personalities, but by one or two traits. All of these extra characters then end up blending together in an unsightly mess. Who is Faolin? What did she do? Who is this character that I'm reading about? I can't remember why she's doing this and it's boring, so I really don't care to look it up.

Blah blah blah. The Wheel of Cash turns and my money comes and goes, leaving wallets that fade to credit cards and credit cards that fade to checks. What was once a beginning will never be an ending for there a no true endings in the Wheel of Time for as long as I have my trusty dollar...
 


Of the two long-winded bastards mentioned, I prefer Tolkein. But only because I tackled it when I was young enough to have the patience to read him all the way through... ;)
 

I think my reason would have to work alot harder than my imagination for me to come to the conclusion that Jordan is better than Tolkien ;)
 
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Dark Jezter said:
But I do like Robert E. Howard better than Tolkien.

Absolutely!
Comparing Authors is stupid, comparing what each of us likes whilst futile is at least more constructive...
 

Dragonblade said:
Writing is an art and is wholly subjective about what's good or bad. Its not like math where 2+2=4 regardless of what your opinion of math is.

Whether Jordan's plot meanders or not is subjective. Whether its a mess or not is subjective and mere opinion.

I could easily find equal fault with the writing of authors you like.

Since you have a vested emotional interest in those books, I'm sure you need to tell yourself that. Often.

Someday you'll realize it's ok to admit you like some things even though they're bad for you.

Isn't it great, though? It's all relative, so I'm not actually being obnoxious and condescending, I'm just being honest. Hell, I'm writing, so I'm actually being an artist as well.
 

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