Anyone else overall disappointed by D&D books?

[billd91]

So the mass produced sources from WotC are kind of bland? Not surprising, really. The larger the intended audience, the more bland the product. That's the tendency. And that's one reason fast food is never really as boldly flavored in spices or herbs than the food produced by local, non-chain restaurants or your own kitchen.
Blandness sells. Blandness allows people with highly varying tastes to get at least some use out of a product that is almost certain to not meet all of their needs full on.
Sure, a mass product can have a little bit of flavor to it, but it doesn't quite have the ability to target a particular niche like a smaller run product that isn't as much of a financial investment. Too much flavor in a mass produced product and you risk not selling enough units to make it profitable.

I'm a little surprised at the deceived comment, though. How did the books mislead you?

 

[Kormydigar]

Two days ago I just got my copy of Unearthed Arcana, along Menace Manual, Tranhuman Space, and GR Psychic's Handbook. Plus I recently bought several other d20 books (including WotC stuff, and third party publishers products).

In getting my Unearthed Arcana, I went to the conclusion that it's the last D&D book that I purchase. I first wondered if it was for being a WotC product, but since I am quite happy with Menace Manual (much more than with Monster Manual for instance), I thought it's rather only with purely D&D products. For example, I was (and I am still) quite happy with Monte's Arcana Unearthed, but I am deceived with Unearthed Arcana. I was also deceived by Book of Exalted Deeds, and likewise by other products I did read but didn't bought in my LFGS.

It seems to me that D&D is now all about a very bland, vanilla, politically correct fantasy game, with much flavor (I speak of art here) intended toward teenagers (yes: I am an old gamer). It's not only Unearthed Arcana, but I got the same deception from MoP, Book of Exalted Deeds, or Book of Vile Darkness. I still like to play D&D, although in flavored hombrew worlds, not vanilla FR or Greyhawk, but I am not getting anymore any other D&D book. Finished!

So, are there others feeling like me around? Or it is just because i am burnt out after having DMed a D&D campaign for one year (and needing rest)?

I think you are frustrated and just using the wrong term. I may be wrong but it sounds like you are more dissappointed with the books than deceived by them. The deception would be in the advertising as opposed to the actual content. After all, a books contents are pretty open and straightforward, kind of hard to deceive a reader with that. I am older gamer myself and have noticed the changes in D&D trends over the years. I enjoyed 1st edition, did not care for second edition, and am of the opinion that the newest edition has too much of a videogame feel for my tastes. I do believe that the game is written for younger players and that that is completely nessessary if the game is to survive and and attract a new generation of gamers.As far as purchasing new product, my advice would be to carefully preview anything prior to purchase and make sure that the book in question has what you are looking for.

 

[Lord Judas]

Like everyone else, I dont know what you mean by decieved. As for production values, as someone mentioned above, the 3.0+ stuff is light years ahead of the 2E stuff. I have a book or two from 2E where all of it is either blue or black, as if those are the only two colors available at the time. I dont know how "the book of Vile Darkness" and "Politically Correct" could be used in the same context either.

 

[SubMensa]

It seems to me that D&D is now all about a very bland, vanilla, politically correct fantasy game, with much flavor (I speak of art here) intended toward teenagers (yes: I am an old gamer). It's not only Unearthed Arcana, but I got the same deception from MoP, Book of Exalted Deeds, or Book of Vile Darkness.

Myself I also find the latest batch of books released by WOTC to be lacking. Maybe it is because they dont have any real flavor of their own. the complete series is just a glorified rewrite of the splatbook series (Sword and Fist, Tome and Blood...)

The splatbooks helped to further define 3rd Edition when it first came out. Options for character development were lean in the early days of 3e.They were and still are heavily used in my group. however if they were to come out today I dont think I would not pick them up. No real flavor of their own, they are just compilations of additional prestige classes as options to add to any campaign.

I'm looking for more than just rules now, I want interesting stories, jump off points for adventure. The Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook, and from what I've seen Eberron both give that. Sure they are generally rulebooks. But they give fuel for the imagination as well. Hooks for new characters to be hooked to the campaign world with.

When you say "deceive," it implies that you were expecting one thing, and the book gave you something else. It also implies that the books *deliberately* led you to expect the wrong thing. Can you clarify what the deception in question was? What were you expecting, and why did you expect that?

I think that anytime he writes "deceived" he really means dissapointed because they did not meet his expectations.

Correct me if I am wrong however Turanil, dont let me put words into your mouth if that wasnt your desired meaning.

 

[Psion]

It seems to me that D&D is now all about a very bland, vanilla, politically correct fantasy game, with much flavor (I speak of art here) intended toward teenagers (yes: I am an old gamer). It's not only Unearthed Arcana, but I got the same deception from MoP, Book of Exalted Deeds, or Book of Vile Darkness. I still like to play D&D, although in flavored hombrew worlds, not vanilla FR or Greyhawk, but I am not getting anymore any other D&D book.

Sorry, I'm not seeing it.

Aimed at teenagers? WAR (my fave current artists) is accused of having comic book style art -- comic books styled like those that saw print when I was growing up.

Politically correct? And the alternative is what? Mechanics like "searing seed" in Dragon 300 that escaped from some hentai flick (I was disappointed to see similar crapola in Book of Fiends, but this was the Armies of the Abyss section, so I guess I should have expected it)? What some folks think of as mature I see as quite the opposite. I just want to run a fun fantasy romp and not have some pretentious white-wolf-esque attempt at "edginess" foisted on me. Just give me the basics and I'll add what I feel is appropriate for my game, thanks.

Not liking FR or Greyhawk? Eh, don't buy it. I was a homebrewer then, I'm a homebrewer now. Edit: Though it does bug me that formerly generic stuff is now only available in FR books, like Avariels and Demihuman Deities beyond the "pantheon leaders."

So in short, I respect you as a fellow member of my community, but I am just not seeing it. But if what's out there doesn't appeal to you, then by all means stick with what works for you. But I guess I answered your question.

 

[Zappo]

Thinking about it, yeah, he probably means something like "disappointed". Well, yeah, there's no doubt that D&D is bland. It's less or more always been like this: the design choice is to get the rules out of the way and into the rulebooks, while the settings provide the actual flavor. D&D with no setting is like pasta with no sauce.

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Just assume I made a joke about deceived, OK?

I'm happy that D&D is politically correct. I wouldn't want to read a rulebook that makes bad jokes about other nationalities, believes, human subraces, whatever. What should we do? Replace the role of D&D Dungeon Master with that of a KKK Grand Dragon?
(Insert your deity/deities of choice here), girls, should we bood Lockwood, Raynolds, England and all the other artists and hire Penthouse photographers for the illustrations?

As for the rest, I have to agree to the rest: D&D 3.x Books from Wizards are usually very good. The "Vanilla D&D" has flavour enough for me, not too much going into detail of the world, for the DM is supposed to build his own. The FR stuff, on the other hand, is supposed to explain the world in detail.

But I'm getting suspicious about who's the deceiver here. The ranting, the weird arguments, the choice of words. I hope you ain't a troll, boy!

The Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook, and from what I've seen Eberron both give that. Sure they are generally rulebooks. But they give fuel for the imagination as well. Hooks for new characters to be hooked to the campaign world with.

the FRCS is very rules-light. Most of it is flavour text. Tons of it. There are a couple of chapters up front, but once that's out of the way, it describes Faerûn in great detail....

 

[barsoomcore]

It seems to me that D&D is now all about a very bland, vanilla, politically correct fantasy game

Right. It's not that edgy, controversial, spicy game we all remember from the old days. Remember those days? Remember how D&D players were the BAD BOYS? Carrying a Player's Handbook used to be like wearing a Hell's Angels jacket, didn't it? We were like GODS, man. On the edge and spicing things up. What happened to us? What happened to the dream?

*Sniff*

Somebody hold me.

 

[SubMensa]

The FRCS is very rules-light. Most of it is flavour text. Tons of it. There are a couple of chapters up front, but once that's out of the way, it describes Faerûn in great detail....

Exactly what I like in a rulebook. Another example of this is Midnight. Rules heavy in sections, but lots and lots of little details.

Compare the 3e PH to Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed. The PH comes across as stuffy and just a collection of rules. Wheras AU, even though it isnt a campaign setting in it's own right has some back story and relationships between the races, and to a lesser extent the classes.

 

[Numion]

politically correct fantasy game

Do you mean the use of 'he' and 'she' varyingly? That never much bothered me, or any other finn for that matter I think, since my own language doesn't differentiate between genders in pronouns.

Otherwise I don't know any big PC hurdles in WotC products. Males and females are similar in stats, but I don't see that as a problem. Racism does exist in WotC worlds (well, FR at least). So do Devils and Demons. Book of Vile Darkness is not very PC.