Anyone Else Tired of The Tyranny of Novelty?

[TheSword]

4e did begin the idea of the Dark Domains being in the Shadowfell, so that would be easy enough to transition a game from the Vale to Barovia.

I’m aware you can transition it. Just that it ceases to be a Nentir Vale campaign from that point on. Which if you’ve spent a fair amount of time introducing your players to Nentir Vale it might be annoying.

 

[pemerton]

Priceless

But surely not - can't you get those sorts of adventures pretty cheap from 3PP or DM's Guild and the like?

Anyway, the thread seems to have moved from a discussion of novelty as a criterion of quality to a discussion of novelty as a commercial imperative.

 

[TheSword]

But surely not - can't you get those sorts of adventures pretty cheap from 3PP or DM's Guild and the like?

Anyway, the thread seems to have moved from a discussion of novelty as a criterion of quality to a discussion of novelty as a commercial imperative.

DM Guild is a crap shoot. In a lot of cases so are 3pp.

Plus this is demand that WOC have created and thrived on. It would be nice if they can cater to it. Instead of chasing the novel every time.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The other element is that players have got to want it too. Let’s be honest a cops adventure path is a pretty specific schtick and may well not be what people are looking for when they sit down to play D&D. Teachers in a magical school would be the same. A campaign based on a gladiatorial tournament - maybe. Again it sounds extremely specific to me.

Maybe every group would love that stuff and it’s just me who it isn’t to the taste of. But it sounds very specific to me. The reviews I’ve seen of the AP would seem to bear that out.

And yet Netflix is FILLED with 'Harry Potter Clone' magical academies, blah blah blah. How could Paizo or WotC ignore that audience? Cops, gladiators, magic school, these are mainstream fantasy tropes you can find all over streaming online today, ad nauseum. Calling them 'whacky' or even 'different' strikes me as strange. They seem almost mundane when compared with Sigil, Keeps full of giants, a fantastical underworld city of evil elves, a crashed starship, or any of the dozens of other classic TSR-era adventures.

I mean, sure, some might fit better than others into a certain campaign. TSR tended to print tournament adventures as modules, which were largely devoid of backstory and whatnot, aside some thin thematic veneer, for obvious reasons. So, some of them slotted into games fairly easily. Others did not. I mean, no way was I unleashing tons of artifact magical swords on my campaign! In fact, IIRC I ran a side-campaign set in WoG so I could run modules in it on demand, because I thought NONE of them really fit well in my ongoing persistent world games.

I think there are a lot more variety of tastes and needs for adventures than you imagine. I'd have killed for a magic academy setup in the old days. In fact I brewed up one of my own, LONG before Harry Potter was a thing.

 

[TheSword]

And yet Netflix is FILLED with 'Harry Potter Clone' magical academies, blah blah blah. How could Paizo or WotC ignore that audience? Cops, gladiators, magic school, these are mainstream fantasy tropes you can find all over streaming online today, ad nauseum. Calling them 'whacky' or even 'different' strikes me as strange. They seem almost mundane when compared with Sigil, Keeps full of giants, a fantastical underworld city of evil elves, a crashed starship, or any of the dozens of other classic TSR-era adventures.

I mean, sure, some might fit better than others into a certain campaign. TSR tended to print tournament adventures as modules, which were largely devoid of backstory and whatnot, aside some thin thematic veneer, for obvious reasons. So, some of them slotted into games fairly easily. Others did not. I mean, no way was I unleashing tons of artifact magical swords on my campaign! In fact, IIRC I ran a side-campaign set in WoG so I could run modules in it on demand, because I thought NONE of them really fit well in my ongoing persistent world games.

I think there are a lot more variety of tastes and needs for adventures than you imagine. I'd have killed for a magic academy setup in the old days. In fact I brewed up one of my own, LONG before Harry Potter was a thing.

You don’t ignore them. You publish them interspersed with normal adventure

 

[PsyzhranV2]

I can't help but wonder if the latest tangent in this conversation isn't about "novelty" but "genre", and "novelty" is being used as a stand-in for anything outside "traditional Western low to lowish-heroic fantasy".

Also, to the people saying we need more adventures that are in or can be easily slotted into the Sword Coast: please, no. Anything but that. The Sword Coast is boring.

There's so many other places WotC could be going. Though, with the recent statement on canon from previous editions not being binding, I wonder if that signals that they'll be moving away from the Forgotten Realms altogether (or if not, then maybe just FR's Material Plane).

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

You don’t ignore them. You publish them interspersed with normal adventure

Well, I suspect WotC publishes what sells... Not to say that negates your preferences at all, it is just unfortunate truth. If I had my way they would be publishing 4e material too!

 

[Aldarc]

I’m aware you can transition it. Just that it ceases to be a Nentir Vale campaign from that point on. Which if you’ve spent a fair amount of time introducing your players to Nentir Vale it might be annoying.

Sure, but it's not as if I have shortage of pre-existing adventures or encounter tools to draw from for running the Nentir Vale.

I can't help but wonder if the latest tangent in this conversation isn't about "novelty" but "genre", and "novelty" is being used for a stand-in outside "traditional Western low to lowish-heroic fantasy".

This has been my general feeling as well. It's more about desiring a narrow niche/aesthetic of fantasy adventure rather than any imagined tyranny of novelty.

Well, I suspect WotC publishes what sells... Not to say that negates your preferences at all, it is just unfortunate truth. If I had my way they would be publishing 4e material too!

Just imagine. This upcoming Feywild adventure was originally meant for 4e but they are only now getting around to it.

 

[pemerton]

this is demand that WOC have created and thrived on. It would be nice if they can cater to it. Instead of chasing the novel every time.

I expect that WotC is publishing whatever they think will make them the most money, having regard both to sales of the particular product and the promotion of other products (eg t-shirts or mugs or whatever it is they sell) that will flow from dissemination of the module.

I doubt that they're publishing "novel" scenarios simply in pursuit of critical acclaim!

EDIT: @AbdulAlhazred has said much the same thing not far upthread.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I expect that WotC is publishing whatever they think will make them the most money, having regard both to sales of the particular product and the promotion of other products (eg t-shirts or mugs or whatever it is they sell) that will flow from dissemination of the module.

I doubt that they're publishing "novel" scenarios simply in pursuit of critical acclaim!

EDIT: @AbdulAlhazred has said much the same thing not far upthread.

5e is a great example of not giving in to either extreme, exactly because they are trying to make a successful game and franchise.

5e continues the evolution of 4e, but doesn’t throw out things that most players want in the game in order for it to feel like D&D. This is a good thing. It’s also good that Apocalypse World was created, and that a ton of games modeled, to varying degrees, after it also got made.

The thing that I find distasteful, and egregiously tiresome, is the “wotc is terrified of creativity” nonsense, because they aren’t trying to reinvent the damn game.