Anyone else trying to write a book?

[warlord]

I convey pretty much everything in my book with dialouge and the characters reactions. This is why all my chapters are about 75% dialouge. In response to Frukathka's complaint about how he never gets past the first chapter I had the same problem. The solution is to right an anthology. This way you get to have characters you can grow to love but new, exciting yet somehow related plotlines every chapter.

 

[Dog Moon]

In my story, my world consists of two mass continents which are connected through a thin stretch of mountainous land, one which is a normal continent like America, except it is all one nation and not divided by states. The other is contained of a dozen or so nations, each blocked in by mountains [Picture America where the borders of each state is a region of mountains]. The borders were once protected by Magic, but the evil mastermind in the world has been destroying the Magic.

So when the main character finally leaves his nation after chasing after an assassin [the book starts just on the border], he knows nothing about the outside world, just as the readers. The character and the readers find out the same information at the same time, although there are a few times when I switch to other characters and the reader learns more than the main character.

FWIW, I'm on my last time through editing and I need to start looking at publishers for my book.

 

[mojo1701]

Speaking of which, how long (in, say, Microsoft word, with what type of font) would be in a 250-page novel? As a better basis for comparison, how long would the Harry Potter books take up in a word processor (using 12 pt. Times New Roman)?

 

[takyris]

Mojo, it's tough to come up with numbers the way you're doing it, because even if you pick up two same-size paperback books, they could very well have different font sizes, slightly different fonts, different margins, and so forth.

I can tell you that a 250-page paperback, like, say, the length of an average mystery novel, is about 80,000 words (massive generalization), which is 320 pages (250 words to a page, and 80k / 250 = 320) in standard manuscript submission format -- Courier New 12, double-spaced, 1" margins all around.

Manuscript format has 250 words to a page. Something like Times New Roman 11, single-and-a-half spaced, with margins that are more like .8" or so, has around 350 or so words to a page -- although that's gonna vary even more.

A non-massive fantasy novel is likely in the 125k-word range -- that's the largest that most major publishers are willing to buy from a first-time writer these days, and they'll split a big novel up into smaller novels rather than publish a 300k-word novel by a newcomer. A 300k-word novel would be something like Jordan's earlier books. Not sure about Harry Potter. I suspect that Martin's books are also in the 200k-300k-word range somewhere, based on the number of pages and the size of the font. But he's a big ol' famous guy who can sell that kind of thing.

Right now, as totally general submission guidelines, the market is around:

75k-85k for a romance novel
80k-90k for a mystery
90k-100k for a thriller
100k-125k for SF or fantasy

At least, for new writers. An established person can get a much longer novel published, or scoot by with a shorter one.

 

[Dog Moon]

Originally posted by takyris
Right now, as totally general submission guidelines, the market is around:

75k-85k for a romance novel
80k-90k for a mystery
90k-100k for a thriller
100k-125k for SF or fantasy

At least, for new writers. An established person can get a much longer novel published, or scoot by with a shorter one.

Hmmm, really? Does that mean 916,920 words is too many? Of course it probably matters less about how many pages a story has and more how good it is. I've heard that publishing companies often have you add many pages or take away some, either because they want more because its good/take away some because its bad, or because they wish to fit a more common number of pages for a novel, like your story is too long and they want it to fit into a single book or your story is a little too short and they want to go the route of the trilogy.

 

[mojo1701]

or your story is a little too short and they want to go the route of the trilogy.

Reminds me of Lord of the Rings.

 

[Eeralai]

Joshua Dyal, I'm in the dialogue group here, but it is also important to figure out what aspects of the world need to be shown and what don't. What worked for me was completing the whole book and then going back and cutting out the stuff that seemed important at the time, but really wasn't. Another helpful technique, for me, is writing short stories. If I give myself a 5000 word limit or so, I really have to hone in right away on what is important and what is not. Then when I sit down to write a book, I feel like I have more breathing room, but I also know better what doesn't even need to be written in a first draft. If you really feel the need to have an "information dump" I'd do it, get on with the rest of the novel and then go back and see places where you can fit things in better. Just getting the book done is a major accomplishment in which you will learn a lot; one of the things you will learn is there is still a lot to be learned.

And for everyone, it looks like sign-ups for Fall Ceramic DM are going to be happening tonight. I encourage all writers to give that a try. There is a world to be learned taking 4 unrelated pictures and making a story out of them in 72 hours.

 

[Desdichado]

Speaking of which, how long (in, say, Microsoft word, with what type of font) would be in a 250-page novel? As a better basis for comparison, how long would the Harry Potter books take up in a word processor (using 12 pt. Times New Roman)?

Cthulhu's Librarian is the one to ask here; he used to work for a publisher, and it's remarkable the tricks they use to obscure exactly how long a book is; pagecount doesn't actually mean much.

A smallish novel, say one of the licensed Star Trek novels is probably 90,000 to 100,000 words. A larger, typical fantasy novel is probably 120,000 to 180,000 words. A Robert Jordan book worthy of having readers gouge out there eyes in frustration is probably at least twice that.

 

[RangerWickett]

I'm 130K into my novel. It'll probably end up at 180K, but I'm durned if I can't figure out a way to make it shorter. It sure doesn't feel even as long as, say, Perdido Street Station.

I haven't had a chance to read your story yet. I've got writer guilt just from reading your thread, and I want to write. Once I've massaged my ego a bit, I'll come back.

 

[Orius]

So I'm not the only frustrated wannabe writer here. Not sure if that's a good thing or bad.

In addition to the usual lack of time and discipline, I find the many online discussions about how modern fantasy writing sucks to be discouraging.

Not really sure what to write either, my idea were more clear like 10 years ago or so, but then they were also adolescent ideas that would probably be rejected on sight as well.

I'd want to aviod the trilogy model. I'm thinking more long the lines of stories that are self-contained, but can be strung together in a series. I'd like to do something that harkens back to the classic pulp fantasy, that takes the best elements of pulp, but something that isn't loaded with some of the cheese.