Anyone Interested in an ENworld Edition of D&D?

[Zardnaar]

For the last year or so I have been playing around with my own version of D&D as I have not liked the way D&DN has been heading. I am throwing around the idea of an OSR/3rd ed hybrid type game. A basic skill system would be used along with feats but the numbers will be more along the lines of OSR games to avoid the bloat of 3.x type games including Pathfinder.

For example for monsters I am more or less using AD&D ones or BECMI ones and d20ising them with ability scores and a few features from 4E/D&DN. Hobgoblins for example get +2 AC when fighting in a Phalanx.

Class design is kind of reverting back to AD&D for the spell casters and 3rd ed for the martials but fighters and rogues will have AD&D level of saves. The fighter for example will resemble the 3.5 one but have 4 skill points per level and base saves of +15/+12/+12 or so by level 20.

Ability scores will be capped, spell DCs will be capped and spell DCs will be 10+ the level of the spell. Open to suggestions on where those caps will be. Natural Spell Feat will not exist, Druids are losing the animal companion and the spell list will be trimmed and scaling buff spells removed or set with a fixed number and they will not stack that much to take care of CoDzilla.


WBL will be gone, magic item creation will revert back to AD&D's system. Simplicity is a goal and numbers will be dragged down maybe not to AD&D levels but close. AC 30 (-10) can stretch out a little to perhaps 35 (-15).

The basic idea to start with is to focus on the big 4 classes to level 5 and then Ranger, Paladin, Druid, Bard and then add the Barbarian, Monk, Sorcerer and maybe Warlock. Default magic will be vancian but some of the old restrictions can come back along with new ones like the stacking rules from D&DN. Non vancian options can also be added perhaps on classes like Sorcerer and the Warlock. Then we can worry about level 6-10 and then 11-15 with 16+ not really being a major goal.

That is the basic idea/design goals so far and I have done a bit of the work myself using Open Office.

 

[fjw70]

Seeing that 3.x/PF is my least favorite flavor of D&D (the main flavors being OSR, 3.x, and 4e) I personally would not be overly interested, but I am sure I would take a look at it at some point.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

The proposed project doesn't sound like an ENWorld D&D project to me.

Given the market fragmentation, I doubt it's possible to create a successful D&D game these days.

 

[Zardnaar]

The proposed project doesn't sound like an ENWorld D&D project to me.

Given the market fragmentation, I doubt it's possible to create a successful D&D game these days.

Right now it is a personal project and just wondering if anyone wants to help out on it. Its not going to be published or anything and it doesn't matter if it is a bit rough around the edges.

fjw70 I suppose the main idea is the game will look like 3.x but play more like OSR just you will have some options. I like the concept of feats for example but not to happy with the way they were abused in 3rd and 4th ed. I'm thinking feats will be more like class options with level requirements instead of feat chains for the more powerful ones. I would be aiming for a flatter power curve. For example a feat might let a Druid spontaneously cast plant or weather spells or thunder and lightning for example. So a Druid with some feats is a bit more powerful than a Druid without feat but I am aiming at a bit more versatility as opposed to blatant power creep. My initial playtest did recycle 2nd eds spheres but it is a lot more book work in terms of spells.

 

[Celebrim]

There are as many versions of EnWorld D&D as there are posters.

We are a fairly creative and talented bunch. Well, some of us are...

We like different things, and even when we like the same thing, we have different preferences as how to get to that end destination. I think that there are a lot of tables represented at EnWorld where I'd have a blast as a player.

But they'd probably all use different rules.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

The proposed project doesn't sound like an ENWorld D&D project to me.

Given the market fragmentation, I doubt it's possible to create a successful D&D game these days.

Dungeon Crawl Classics -- which is certainly a flavor of D&D, even if it branches pretty far away from what D&D's later descendants evolved into -- did it. But Goodman had a well-established distribution base and market ahead of time.

 

[Zardnaar]

There are as many versions of EnWorld D&D as there are posters.

We are a fairly creative and talented bunch. Well, some of us are...

We like different things, and even when we like the same thing, we have different preferences as how to get to that end destination. I think that there are a lot of tables represented at EnWorld where I'd have a blast as a player.

But they'd probably all use different rules.

I'm not making a D&D for everyone though just for my group and if anyone else wants to help out with it that is great. I want a game simpler to run than 3.5 that has the classic D&D elements I am looking for and that addresses some of the problems AD&D had (thief class sucking, ability scores being messy, certain spells being borked etc).

 

[Celebrim]

I'm not making a D&D for everyone though just for my group and if anyone else wants to help out with it that is great. I want a game simpler to run than 3.5 that has the classic D&D elements I am looking for and that addresses some of the problems AD&D had (thief class sucking, ability scores being messy, certain spells being borked etc).

So, I've thought about creating a game based of AD&D with modern elements, but the more I thought about the revisions I would make, the more I realized it would end up being 3.X D&D.

The game you are describing is already effectively more 3.X D&D than the AD&D variant I was thinking about, in that you have skill points, feats, and I'd guess based on what you write also unified class progression, 3.X style ability scores, linear declaration and resolution, no racial level caps, no segments, no weapon vs. AC modifiers, and 3.X style multiclassing. So I'm not even sure what you mean by 'classic D&D elements'. I can't see them for the forest of 3.X rules.

As for tweaking 3.X to play better, I'm already much further down that line than you are (535 page house rules document) and have years of play testing to prove and refine my concepts. It can be done, but everyone has different ideas on how to do it and no reason to accept your vision as better than anyone else's. Indeed, that's the problem D&D faces right now in spades. No one has any reason to accept WotC's vision as better than anyone else's either.

So, I wish you luck in your project. I think the D20 core is a very solid framework to start from. I'll be happy to give you some advice. But, since I already think "you are doing it wrong", I doubt collaboration is going to be very successful.

 

[Zardnaar]

I can go either way on unified xp progression, not sure what ability score mods to use as I am considering BECMI ability scores as well and I am up in the air in regards to multiclassing rules as I can see the pros and cons of both. I have no problem with weapon vs AC modifiers and I am using AD&D armor with the odd armor type from 3rd ed. Beyond some things I think 3rd ed did get right IMHO like ascending ACs, sneak attack vs back stab and clerical spontaneous healing. I'm only looking at feats and skills as a replacement for AD&D WP/NWP system and I am not convinced 3rd ed had the right system there at least in terms of numbers etc.

If I did collaborate with you or anyone else on your baby I would just change my expectations to fit yours for example as you are further along than I am and you have a concrete plan. I can go several ways myself as I like BECMI, AD&D and 3rd ed along with various retroclones. I don''t think there is a right one true way anymore although there may be one wrong way.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

For an "EN World" edition I'd like to see something like this:

- Start with the B/X (or BEC) base
- Revise into d20 mechanics and replace tables (AC goes upward, saves/attacks to d20 + ability mod + class mod)
- Split race (human, elf, dwarf, halfling) and class (fighter, M-u, cleric, thief ... maybe druid, paladin, ranger). Allow a couple of multi-hybrids like fighter/magic-user to replicate the original elf class.
- Adopt a few 3E class abilities (e.g. cleric spontaneous conversion, sneak attack)
- Drop variable XP advancement.
- Otherwise, keep it simple. Ability checks = skills. No feats; just class & race abilities. Simple stat blocks. Quick character creation. Stick with the simpler equipment and spell lists.

There are enough good 3E/d20 variants already, and some recreations that are close to AD&D; I haven't seen one like the above that I like yet.