Anyone know why vulnerabilities are gone?

[ki11erDM]

I do like things like cold slowing magma creatures, sure... but more damaged? Dubious.

100% agree with this.

 

[Garthanos]

The method I like is regeneration powers which do not work on the round following damage of a type.. (effectively if one member of a team hits with a silver sword the werewolf doesnt get his regen as often but everyone still can hurt him)
its team oriented and very much 4e in that regard.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Of course under this sort of logic a snowball would have more of an effect on a campfire than a candle...

Vulnerabilities should be rare, not just applied to anything with a resistance and the "apply an additional effect" version of vulnerabilities is far more desirable than "do more damage".

I don't know. A lot of those "vulnerabilities" are so situational that I end up saying, "great, it's 'vulnerable' to cold, so it's slowed--and this makes a difference to me how? It doesn't need to move quickly to keep beating me in the face." If radiant damage dazes the target, save ends, that's one thing (though I'd really prefer "until the end of my next turn"). Slowed until the end of my next turn is much more situational and always seems to come up in situations where it makes no difference.

 

[Regicide]

Of course under this sort of logic a snowball would have more of an effect on a campfire than a candle...

Um... that really has no relation to what I said. But yes, a snowball would have more of an effect on a campfire than a candle. The amount of energy lost to the campfire would be much greater. But thats like saying a 50 point sword blow would have more effect on an ancient dragon than a minion.

 

[Kingreaper]

I REALLY dislike this about 4E.

PC: "Ha ha, you are now vulnerable to cold and guess what? I have a cold bow."

With the only one I've seen in use, it actually made sense. A fire attack hits you. Then another one. The two combined are worse than just adding them up, this is represented by the first one causing vulnerability.

 

[IanB]

There are good game balance reasons to keep vulnerabilities and immunities to a minimum in 4e.

Start with the fact that characters have a fairly minimal number of powers compared to earlier editions. A character who picks all fire powers, for example, in order to stick to a theme, could just be flat out screwed by immune fire monsters in prior editions, and no longer has the ability to come back the next day with a loadout of cold spells instead, or whatever. In 4e immunities are very rare, so while the character might be weaker in encounters with fire resistant monsters, he will very rarely be outright useless. This nod to thematic character building is, I think, the most important reason to avoid outright immunities in monster design, because it works in service of actually role-playing.

Vulnerabilities also tend to create large differences in player power vs. different types of creatures. Minimizing vulnerabilities means an adventure writer can create challenges without having to spend too much time worrying about certain character configurations trivializing the challenge.

Undead are the big exception, which I think was something of a mistake; divine classes are filled to the brim with radiant powers but there aren't really very many in other classes so the challenge level a particular encounter might have for a group with no divine characters is quite a lot higher than for one without divine characters, especially if you need radiant damage to shut down some incredibly powerful aura effect (see: mad wraith.)

 

[Saeviomagy]

I don't know. A lot of those "vulnerabilities" are so situational that I end up saying, "great, it's 'vulnerable' to cold, so it's slowed--and this makes a difference to me how? It doesn't need to move quickly to keep beating me in the face." If radiant damage dazes the target, save ends, that's one thing (though I'd really prefer "until the end of my next turn"). Slowed until the end of my next turn is much more situational and always seems to come up in situations where it makes no difference.

A dazed foe gets a single action, which could be a full move plus attack (ie - a charge).

A slowed foe gets 2 actions with a move speed of 2, which will be 4 squares of movement plus an attack (ie - a move plus a charge).

Guess which is a more effective move if you actually act to end up more than 4 squares away from the foe?

Um... that really has no relation to what I said. But yes, a snowball would have more of an effect on a campfire than a candle. The amount of energy lost to the campfire would be much greater. But thats like saying a 50 point sword blow would have more effect on an ancient dragon than a minion.

Fine, miss the point if you want. Let's go with something a little more even. Let's try pouring liquid nitrogen into a bucket of molten steel vs a bucket of warm water. Which is going to get frozen first?

Which burns better? Petrol, or frozen petrol?

 

[Nail]

Let's go with something a little more even. Let's try pouring liquid nitrogen into a bucket of molten steel vs a bucket of warm water. Which is going to get frozen first?

Which burns better? Petrol, or frozen petrol?

Oh, you sooooooooo don't want to go there. Please, let's not bring (mistaken) chemical or physics notions into a gaming argument. Only bad things happen.

 

[Stalker0]

I do miss there were more vulnerabilities, but what I think is interesting is that resistances are so common for pcs and so amazingly strong.

I have players at 12th now and even resist 5 is great. Damage from monsters doesn't scale that quick, and resist 5 knocks out ongoing 5 damage. Its the most common magic items my players try to get, you can never go wrong with more resistances.

 

[keterys]

I think they really screwed the pooch on resistances on PCs. Got a resistance? Okay, don't worry about ongoing damage of that type, ever...

Tiefling bathing in the light of your Pit Fiends? Oh well.

Mind you, part of that is perhaps due to damage levels probably not being high enough.

But, yeah, way too easy to get on items, hedging out other options.