D&D 3E/3.5 Anyone still making 3.5e material?

[carmachu]

How much more 3.5 material do you need? There's a crap ton out there, I can confortably run 3.5 games now till I retire in 30-40 years.

 

[Herobizkit]

Pathfinder is 100% OGL and has its own SRD. This makes the transition that much easier, and with the "fan-based" 3.5 SRD also online, there's no excuse NOT to switch.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

I assume I'm not alone in not converting to either 4e or Pathfinder.

You are not, but I'm moving to Trailblazer instead. IMO, TB classes are closer to 3.5 in design that Pathfinder, not overinflated with abilities. But TB did fix numerous issues I had with the 3.5 core underlying rules.

 

[Dandu]

What did they fix?

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

What did they fix?

The math for iterative attacks: instead of incrementally decreasing attack bonuses to the point of futility, characters earn a second iterative attack at BAB +6 but both attacks are at –2/–2, instead of +0/–5. Characters never get more than two attacks, instead the penalty for both attacks reduces to –1/–1 at BAB +11, then +0/+0 at BAB +16.

Spellcasters are not penalized for multiclassing: instead every class earns a Base Magic Bonus, even non-spellcasting classes. Every spellcasting class consults the same chart to determine how many spells they can ready and how many spells they can cast based on the character's BMB. So, a druid 5/sorcerer 5 would be able to able to cast all druid spells as a 10th level druid and cast all sorcerer/wizard spells a 10th level sorcerer. However the character would only be able to cast 4 1st level spells, 4 2nd level spells, 3 3rd level spells, 3 4th level spells, and 2 5th level spells. They just choose from both spell lists.

First level characters are hardier, they get bonus hit points equal to the Con score.

Rogues sneak attack, and likewise critical hits, work on anything. No gamist simulation about "vulnerable parts", they are just very good hits!

Familiars are redesigned, animal companions were removed and substituted with speak with animal at will.

AoOs are often confusing so things which trigger AoOs are reduced. Moving around within a creatures entire threatened area no longer provoke, only leaving the entire threatened area; i.e. as long as you are engaged with a foe you can circle around to the other side and not provoke. Standing up no longer provokes. Even if your movement is slowed to 5 feet, moving 5 feet won't provoke.

Allies don't provide cover for ranged attacks.

Allies don't obstruct a charge lane.

Grapple made easier.

Turn made simpler.

Aerial and aquatic movement and combat simplified.

Skills are simplified. Class skills only earn a character an immediate +3 skill bonus when a single rank is spent on the skill otherwise every character can spend skill ranks in any skill. Thus you can have an intellectual fighter. Also, every class that had 2+Int were bumped to 4+Int, monks were bumped to 6+Int. Lastly, the skill list was consolidated and pruned similar to how Pathfinder consolidated it.

[Edit] Most importantly, effects that were recharged daily are instead recharged whenever the party gets an opportunity for 10 minutes of rest, including single target spells with a duration of 1 minute/level. Area effect and multiple target spells can refresh with a 10 minute rest if the character spends an Action Point, otherwise they need a full night rest. There is a short list of exclusive spells which need full night rest including Divine/Commune, Raise Dead, and Teleport . . . Resting 10 minutes also restore 50% of a character's hit points!


That's from the top of my head. Plus, the classes were rebalanced bringing some classes up in ability and some classes get things to fill in some gaps, but not to the extent Pathfinder did it.

• Druids brought down with the removal of animal companion and wild shape earning defined bonuses. Instead of an animal companion druids get speak with animal as an at will.
• Fighter brought up with an ability called Expert Weapon Proficiency that allows the fighter's specific weapon to be improved by choices from increased base damage die, increased threat range, increased critical multiplier, or some other effects; a fighter's AoO gets extra damage; plus the increased skill points.
• Barbarian's DR earned at 4th level, then doubling its prior effectiveness.
• Bard's caster level for conjuration, divination, enchantment, and illusion effectively at full BMB progression, also the bard list was expanded up to 7th level and 8th level spells.
• Clerics can earn a 3rd domain at 11th level.
• Paladins get tower shield, cast from the cleric spell list and the bless weapon and holy sword spells rolled in as class abilities, at 5th level they never lose their smite if they miss an attack. Can cast spells as soon at 2nd level and 5th level cleric spells at 19th level.
• Rangers cast from the druid spell list, earn a bonus to initiative, add half their level to all Survival checks, and may choose from archery and two weapon style feats as they wish. Also lost animal companion. Can cast spells as soon as 2nd level, and 5th level druid spells at 19th level.
• Rogues get a bonus to attacks any time an opponent is denied Dex that effectively brings them up to full BAB in that situation, and I already mentioned the change to sneak attack.
• Sorcerer get Eschew Materials at 1st, wizards can cast read magic without having to prepare it, and both get a changed familiar and I already mentioned the nicer multiclassing rules and increased skill points.
• Monks get increased skill points as well and proficiency with spear and longspear, the flurry ability modified so every attack at the same bonus, in certain situations the monk BAB is full 1:1, the Wisdom bonus applies to Initiative also, and as a nod to the AD&D monk the monk gets Trapfinding and may use Disable Device as a rogue does. The Deflect Arrows feat allows monks to deflect extra arrows at higher levels.

 

[Dandu]

Personally, while Pathfinder and Trailblazer are probably fine on their own merits, I do not find them very... compelling.

Certainly not compelling enough to spend money on, in any case.

Or pirate, for that matter.

Or, apparently, look at the Pathfinder SRD.

I guess what I'm saying is, I wish something'd fix the fundamental balance problems in 3.5 instead of touching up the rules a little.

 

[Sylrae]

I can appreciate that dandu. While Pathfinder tends to be the game that gets my money nowadays, I don't run the pathfinder rules as-is. I have a plethora of house-rules that I ran last time, and I'll be running a bigger list of house rules next time. I'm basically trying to use alot of the changes from Trailblazer and implement them in pathfinder, as well as many other changes.

Pathfinder isn't *Quite* the d20 system I want to run, but it's got current support (my players can get PHBs, and has many mechanics that I prefer over 3.5 - like CMB/CMD, and the way skills work in pfrpg)

 

[ValhallaGH]

I guess what I'm saying is, I wish something'd fix the fundamental balance problems in 3.5 instead of touching up the rules a little.

Well, Trailblazer does a better job than most, with their combination of the Rest mechanic, their version of Action Points, and the Rote / Restricted / Ritual spell division. That, and assuming that only class balance for encounters matters, from a rules design perspective.

Rest Mechanic: Rests come in two varieties, short and long. Long rests are the traditional night's rest that refreshes all abilities (and restores all hp).
Short rests take 10 minutes, restore all per Rest abilities (Rage, Smite, etc), restore 50% hp, and all Rote Spells. A character can spend an action point to regain 100% hp, all Restricted spells, or one Ritual spell.

Action Points: Six per level that provide basic benefits, as well as the fuel for Action Point Enhancements (gained at 1st and every 3 after). The basic abilities include (incomplete list) roll die and add (open-ended) result to total, re-roll failed d20 check and keep result (and you can add a die to this roll), get a new save against ongoing effect, auto-confirm critical hit, extra standard action, and so on.
The Enhancements include things like larger action dice, more dice per level, bonding magic items (numerical bonuses automatically scale with level), sharing action points, extra action dice under certain circumstances, die result as DR, die result as Dodge AC bonus, die result as bonus damage, and some others. Cool stuff that helps a lot, though not regularly.
Also, action points can be used as rewards, either because the GM activates a fumble, or the PCs complete a quest, act very heroic, or just make the GM laugh. (Yeah, a useful quest reward.)

Spell Division: Rote spells have a single target, a duration 1 min / level or less, and come back with a short rest. All 0-levels, magic missile, scorching ray, and similarly fun-but-not-usually-optimal spells are rote.
Restricted spells have a duration 10 min / level (or more), area effects or multiple targets, and all Conjurations (healing is a part of Necromancy).
Ritual spells are whatever spells the GM wants to make 1 / day. Default ritual spells include Divination / Commune, Teleport, Raise Dead, and anything with an XP cost (or really expensive / unusual material components),.
The slots used for Restricted / Ritual only come back when those spells refresh. This means that a caster is either making his allies stop for the day (unnecessarily), is burning up a lot of Action Points to recover spell slots, or is relying almost exclusively on Rote spells.


It's not perfect (by any means), but it does reduce the problems.
Ultimately, most of the imbalance I've found has been in the actual spell abilities. All the SOS spells make it really easy for one bad die roll to completely end a character, and while TB action points help with that, they can't completely eliminate it.

 

[Dandu]

Ultimately, most of the imbalance I've found has been in the actual spell abilities.

Yeah, this. The magic system needs to be fundamentally rewritten.

---​

One of the things that makes Trailblazer less than necessary for me is my ability to talk to my group and say "This is the power level I'm aiming for. Please build accordingly, and use the Class Tier system if needed."

 

[Sylrae]

Well, Trailblazer does a better job than most, with their combination of the Rest mechanic, their version of Action Points, and the Rote / Restricted / Ritual spell division. That, and assuming that only class balance for encounters matters, from a rules design perspective.

Some of these are great. I'll touch on the specifics of what I think below.

I'm not sure I agree that only class balance for encounters matters, but I definitely think it's the biggest piece of the puzzle. I think number of class skills and ranks are important as well, and utility abilities that can be used quickly (particularly to avoid an encounter), such as hold portal, arcane lock, and featherfall. They're nothing to scoff at when they can mean the difference between dying and not dying. I don't think a purely skill based or purely social character is viable, but I think that someone who excels in the areas outside combat should take a hit in combat for it, otherwise balance both separately (and balance what people can do IN combat, then balance what they can do out of combat completely ignoring their combat abilities).
I guess what I'm saying is, I like that TB balances their classes based on encounters, but I don't think they should be *ONLY* balanced for in combat. I believe out of combat should be balanced as well, though I don't think it should be a matter of in-combat vs. out of combat, I think it should be combat balance, and out of combat balance as separate entities (AFAIK nobody has done that).

Rest Mechanic: Rests come in two varieties, short and long. Long rests are the traditional night's rest that refreshes all abilities (and restores all hp).
Short rests take 10 minutes, restore all per Rest abilities (Rage, Smite, etc), restore 50% hp, and all Rote Spells. A character can spend an action point to regain 100% hp, all Restricted spells, or one Ritual spell.

Personally I don't really like the new rest mechanic. I like the old one. I don't give back all the hit points after 1 day, and I don't let them refresh all their abilities that often. I approach it from the standpoint that players should endure 4-5 encounters with the abilities they have. If they do the '10 minute adventuring day' they either lose their chance to deal with the enemy (who gets away), or the enemy gets reinforcements, and then the fight is a hell of alot harder when the PCs come back. Instead of say 2 CR 4 fights they might get one CR 9 or 10. Reinforcements are a substantial increase in troops. The players would have to have something pretty clever up their sleeves to take them on, or now need to change their strategy to one of stealth.
This is probably aided by the fact that I don't like dungeon crawls, and tend to run wilderness/city campaigns with the occasional 1-2 session delve thrown in. I also make use of alot of NPCs.

Action Points: Six per level that provide basic benefits, as well as the fuel for Action Point Enhancements (gained at 1st and every 3 after). The basic abilities include (incomplete list) roll die and add (open-ended) result to total, re-roll failed d20 check and keep result (and you can add a die to this roll), get a new save against ongoing effect, auto-confirm critical hit, extra standard action, and so on.
The Enhancements include things like larger action dice, more dice per level, bonding magic items (numerical bonuses automatically scale with level), sharing action points, extra action dice under certain circumstances, die result as DR, die result as Dodge AC bonus, die result as bonus damage, and some others. Cool stuff that helps a lot, though not regularly.
Also, action points can be used as rewards, either because the GM activates a fumble, or the PCs complete a quest, act very heroic, or just make the GM laugh. (Yeah, a useful quest reward.)

I personally like action points. Problem is, my players hate them. I tried to use the mechanic, and the players constantly forgot they had them, or what they could do with them, no matter how many times I explained it. after the campaign finished I opted not to use them again.

Spell Division: Rote spells have a single target, a duration 1 min / level or less, and come back with a short rest. All 0-levels, magic missile, scorching ray, and similarly fun-but-not-usually-optimal spells are rote.
Restricted spells have a duration 10 min / level (or more), area effects or multiple targets, and all Conjurations (healing is a part of Necromancy).
Ritual spells are whatever spells the GM wants to make 1 / day. Default ritual spells include Divination / Commune, Teleport, Raise Dead, and anything with an XP cost (or really expensive / unusual material components),.
The slots used for Restricted / Ritual only come back when those spells refresh. This means that a caster is either making his allies stop for the day (unnecessarily), is burning up a lot of Action Points to recover spell slots, or is relying almost exclusively on Rote spells.

This is a pretty neat mechanic, though it's alot of bookkeeping.

It's not perfect (by any means), but it does reduce the problems.
Ultimately, most of the imbalance I've found has been in the actual spell abilities. All the SOS spells make it really easy for one bad die roll to completely end a character, and while TB action points help with that, they can't completely eliminate it.

Yeah, pretty much. There are some pretty broken spells. Mostly I see them as something that needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis, cause there are so many of them. Some are problematic, some aren't. I think many of the 3.5 revisions floating around have a handful of fixes that are really good. I don't think any of them handled everything the way I would like to see it handled. That's why my games thend to be monstrous chimeras of rules from different d20 games and house rules carved up to fit together.