Anyone test Dragon Disciple in their campaign?
Psyduck said:I guess we'll have to see what happens...
I do game with a lot of power gamers, and I know one of them is going to take advantage of this. If it turns out interesting, I may post a story hour about it
Trust me -- any "real" power gamer can do much better than this class. It's easy to make a DD into a one-note character -- high strength but really nothing else. I suppose that might be very powerful in some games but, in my experience, a more well-rounded character will be much more effective and powerful (and fun). The DD player in my game took the class strictly for roleplaying purposes -- it was definitely NOT the most effective choice for her character.
I dunno
Well about strength I don't know but what I decided to do was become a level 10 sorc and presteige classing into the Dragon Dicple. The feats I got were:
draconic blood
enchanced draconic blood
ambidextrious
combat casting
yada yada yada
I'm a human and in my quest was introduced as a guide to manage a group through the mountains. I secretly discused with my DM that I would eventually turn into a half dragon... aka dragon diciple. He agreed and what i kicked in to RP my best was, as a sorcerer, I put as much ice spells as I could that would liven up my char.
Any way to spar the blabing, a level 10 sorc and level 10 dragon diciple is an awesome class to not only play but role play!
Oh anyway the point of actually taking those feats were because I cast and fight with a custom made spear/staff. It totaly kicks arse.
Well about strength I don't know but what I decided to do was become a level 10 sorc and presteige classing into the Dragon Dicple. The feats I got were:
draconic blood
enchanced draconic blood
ambidextrious
combat casting
yada yada yada
I'm a human and in my quest was introduced as a guide to manage a group through the mountains. I secretly discused with my DM that I would eventually turn into a half dragon... aka dragon diciple. He agreed and what i kicked in to RP my best was, as a sorcerer, I put as much ice spells as I could that would liven up my char.
Any way to spar the blabing, a level 10 sorc and level 10 dragon diciple is an awesome class to not only play but role play!
Oh anyway the point of actually taking those feats were because I cast and fight with a custom made spear/staff. It totaly kicks arse.
Shard O'Glase
First Post
Pure combat DD are equal to pure combat fighter oriented prestige classes in my mind. This means no vampiric touch though since you are capped at 1st level spells. But you get enough str so that your AB equals a fighter type, your hps are only marginally worse since you get con bonuses, you gain natrual armor, natural attacks(cool with multiattack feat in MoTW), and eventually, natural flight, immunity to an element, immunity to paralysis, immunity to sleep(yep this one is lame), and a once a day breath weapon(generally lame but it does come in handy vs certain foes), oh and natural reach which rocks especially with combat reflexes especially if you also use a reach weapon, oh and large size weapons have a bigger base damage.
By the way you can take up to 4 levels of bard without sacrificing any AB, you lose some hp, but you gain more spells, including some cure spells(think wands),and you gain music abilities based on ranks in perform and not level many of which are cool, and at 4th level useable 4 times a day. If not going for a pure combat guy, 10 levels of bard gives you some nice spells, great music abilities, and are still a good combatant, just not pure fighter good.
We had one focussed purely on combat and he worked just as good as the fighter/weapons master in our group. Totally diferent style but just as effective.
By the way you can take up to 4 levels of bard without sacrificing any AB, you lose some hp, but you gain more spells, including some cure spells(think wands),and you gain music abilities based on ranks in perform and not level many of which are cool, and at 4th level useable 4 times a day. If not going for a pure combat guy, 10 levels of bard gives you some nice spells, great music abilities, and are still a good combatant, just not pure fighter good.
We had one focussed purely on combat and he worked just as good as the fighter/weapons master in our group. Totally diferent style but just as effective.
Well, my group has had two experiences with Dragon Disciples: one of the PCs is a dragon disciple, the other was with an end-boss to a Draconic Monastery who was a Dragon Disciple.
The PC seems to be not that powerful. Granted, he is lower level than the rest of the group, but he doesn't seem particularly absurd. In combat he's probably worse than a straight or prestige fighter, and even though the campaign is reaching the ultra levels (16+) he's still stuck with 3rd level spells.
The NPC was not amusing for me as DM. It was not the best thought-out NPC, but I still try to do a bit to keep the NPCs interesting. Basically, he ran a monastery dedicated to a blue dragon who was in a cave nearby. He thought that by sacrificing victims to the dragon he could gain more power as a DD. Well, he was probably the least effective end-boss type characters ever. Round 1 he was hit by feeblemind, and even though he could still charge into battle he was quickly removed. Still, had he managed to get fully hyped-up he could have been fairly effective.
On balance, it seems a fairly weak prestige class. That's right: fairly weak. Compared with a straight fighter, the ability bonuses hardly make up for the HD and BAB weakness, and he lacks the arsenal of feats; compared with prestige fighters he seems even more adrift. Compared with straight spellcasters, he gets blasted away. No spell level progression makes his spellcasting useful for very little as he ascends the levels, and even low-level hypes can be easily dispelled due to low caster level. Natural armour is slightly useful, but most high-level characters have amulets/barkskin or such like. Finally, the breath weapon is something of a joke: by 15th character level you can use a 6d10 weapon once per day, with a straightforward DC save. Your single-class arcane buddies are hurling Prismatic Sprays around, and even fighters are probably dishing out this much damage in a round.
The PC seems to be not that powerful. Granted, he is lower level than the rest of the group, but he doesn't seem particularly absurd. In combat he's probably worse than a straight or prestige fighter, and even though the campaign is reaching the ultra levels (16+) he's still stuck with 3rd level spells.
The NPC was not amusing for me as DM. It was not the best thought-out NPC, but I still try to do a bit to keep the NPCs interesting. Basically, he ran a monastery dedicated to a blue dragon who was in a cave nearby. He thought that by sacrificing victims to the dragon he could gain more power as a DD. Well, he was probably the least effective end-boss type characters ever. Round 1 he was hit by feeblemind, and even though he could still charge into battle he was quickly removed. Still, had he managed to get fully hyped-up he could have been fairly effective.
On balance, it seems a fairly weak prestige class. That's right: fairly weak. Compared with a straight fighter, the ability bonuses hardly make up for the HD and BAB weakness, and he lacks the arsenal of feats; compared with prestige fighters he seems even more adrift. Compared with straight spellcasters, he gets blasted away. No spell level progression makes his spellcasting useful for very little as he ascends the levels, and even low-level hypes can be easily dispelled due to low caster level. Natural armour is slightly useful, but most high-level characters have amulets/barkskin or such like. Finally, the breath weapon is something of a joke: by 15th character level you can use a 6d10 weapon once per day, with a straightforward DC save. Your single-class arcane buddies are hurling Prismatic Sprays around, and even fighters are probably dishing out this much damage in a round.
Shard O'Glase
First Post
I'm going to disagree AL. The problem is the DD sucks as a spellcasting prestige class, and it isn't agreat fighting class if you waste levels on spell casting classes. That player in your game who can cast 3rd elvels spells wasted what 6 levels as a sorcerer, when he could of put 5 of those levels into fighter, gained more HP, more BAB, and specializaiton.
I think this class is seem as underpowered because of its locaiton in T&B. It really should of been in S&F, sort of just like the blade singer, the one in T&B is really good for a fighter prestige class, for a wizard based character it sucks.
I think this class is seem as underpowered because of its locaiton in T&B. It really should of been in S&F, sort of just like the blade singer, the one in T&B is really good for a fighter prestige class, for a wizard based character it sucks.
johncolossus
First Post
my only DD experience
my only experience with the DD (that did not use the +8 str due to enlarge at 5th) was to combine it with a female elven bladesinger.....whicj obviously has both fighter and arcane benefits. The extra spells for DD really added to the arsenal of the bladesinger abilities considering they only go up to 4th level anyway. Also the good thing that has already been mentioned is that it offered up really good roleplay opportunities.
I have seen a lot of threads ask about the DD...possibly more than all other prestige classes, which probably means even with all the questions about it, it is still a popular class. Compared to some it may not be that powerful but I feel what it offers most is good roleplay material (which in the end this is what we all want). With respect to the interpretation of the enlargement bonuses or not, I feel it just depends on your type of game and your DM. It will be right for some and not for others. Also with th epic level handbook out soon, then this class will really add to the arcane classes....imagine an 18th level sorceror and then add 10 levels of DD......all those extra spells could be funnelled into 8th and 9th level spells!! Now that would be a powerful DD character. I suppose if someone I played with wanted an arcane focussed DD type character, I would probably allow them to have the 1/2 dragon template so they could continue as a sorceror. Anyway just my 2 penny worth
my only experience with the DD (that did not use the +8 str due to enlarge at 5th) was to combine it with a female elven bladesinger.....whicj obviously has both fighter and arcane benefits. The extra spells for DD really added to the arsenal of the bladesinger abilities considering they only go up to 4th level anyway. Also the good thing that has already been mentioned is that it offered up really good roleplay opportunities.
I have seen a lot of threads ask about the DD...possibly more than all other prestige classes, which probably means even with all the questions about it, it is still a popular class. Compared to some it may not be that powerful but I feel what it offers most is good roleplay material (which in the end this is what we all want). With respect to the interpretation of the enlargement bonuses or not, I feel it just depends on your type of game and your DM. It will be right for some and not for others. Also with th epic level handbook out soon, then this class will really add to the arcane classes....imagine an 18th level sorceror and then add 10 levels of DD......all those extra spells could be funnelled into 8th and 9th level spells!! Now that would be a powerful DD character. I suppose if someone I played with wanted an arcane focussed DD type character, I would probably allow them to have the 1/2 dragon template so they could continue as a sorceror. Anyway just my 2 penny worth
SpikeyFreak
First Post
Nerf means make something weaker, not more powerful.
--Pedantic Spikey
CullAfulMoshuN
First Post
A player playing a sorcerer in one of the campaigns I am running was interested in the DD PsC, but more for the feel than the benefits. I had a look at the class and thought it pretty much sucked as it was, offering a few cool but rather limited features in exchange for a huge loss in spell casting power. I agree that it would be better for a fighter or monk type character, but even then I am not so sure I would bother burning too many levels on it myself.
I have told the player that if he decides to head down the DD path (they are currently only 1st level) that I would change it to give +1 existing spell caster level every other level starting from 2nd instead of the one extra spell per day feature. I don't think it makes it too unbalancing as he will still be losing atleast 2 levels of spells by 10th level DD in exchange for the DD class abilities that I didn't think were that much greater than the elemental savant PsC that advances at +1 caster level every level.
I have told the player that if he decides to head down the DD path (they are currently only 1st level) that I would change it to give +1 existing spell caster level every other level starting from 2nd instead of the one extra spell per day feature. I don't think it makes it too unbalancing as he will still be losing atleast 2 levels of spells by 10th level DD in exchange for the DD class abilities that I didn't think were that much greater than the elemental savant PsC that advances at +1 caster level every level.
