Anyone using WoT-style Def. Bonuses in D&D?

[kenjib]

I assume that Star Wars d20 has energy weapons that do large amounts of damage? That makes a big difference as regards armor-as-damage-resistance, since a dagger doing d4 damage quickly becomes useless.

IMO having armor use damage resistance really encourages the use of greatswords and greataxes over all else. You end up with less variety in weapon choice.

 

[Skywalker]

Skywalker, I'll definitely check out the revised Star Wars d20. I'm unsure about having armor do damage reduction, though. I was hoping to avoid changing the mechanics that much. Instead, I was leaning towards simply having something along the lines of the WoT Armsman, where the defense bonus, or at least a portion of it, stacks with the AC bonus from wearing armor. Have you tried using armor as DR in a D&D campaign? How did it work out?

Again if you want a quick fix then WoT is fine. I just thought I should go the whole hog as I always found the non-accumulation of Armour and natural AC unrealistic. The Armsman is a good example but it is only one class. Something about high level PCs gaining not benefit from using a Shield and Armour bothers me.

I assume that Star Wars d20 has energy weapons that do large amounts of damage? That makes a big difference as regards armor-as-damage-resistance, since a dagger doing d4 damage quickly becomes useless.

You assume right. Most hand to hand weapons do double damage those in D&D. Blasters do triple damage. This makes DR extremely important to stop a critical hit but not overpowering. Then again SW armour DRs would be much higher than D&D equivalents. My guess in D&D is about 1 DR for Light Armour, 2 for Medium and 3 for Heavy.

 

[Crothian]

The VP/WP system requires some thinking about what happens to healing spells.

What I did was have them heal vitality as normal and 1 wound point per die. So a cure Moderate from a 6th level caster would heal 2d8+6 Vitality and 2 wound points.

 

[Ace]

I plan on using the AC bonus system in Ken Hoods Grim and Gritty rules along with a varient HP system of my own design in my next campaign.

I am using the basic D&D armor rules though not damage reduction. Thats too radical a step for my players

 

[drothgery]

Again if you want a quick fix then WoT is fine. I just thought I should go the whole hog as I always found the non-accumulation of Armour and natural AC unrealistic. The Armsman is a good example but it is only one class. Something about high level PCs gaining not benefit from using a Shield and Armour bothers me.

It's kind of difficult to set up mechanics so that it makes sense for soldiers and inexperienced nobles to wear armor (as they've got money, but limited combat training), but it doesn't for other people (experienced nobles either aren't involved in combat or will have armsman levels). And it can be rationalized pretty well; armsmen simply know more about fighting in armor than anyone else.

Aside: It's a pretty common house rule in WoT that shields grant a Shield bonus to Defense, not an armor bonus (mostly because the idea of algai'd'siswai's bucklers being useless is kind of silly).

 

[hong]

It's kind of difficult to set up mechanics so that it makes sense for soldiers and inexperienced nobles to wear armor (as they've got money, but limited combat training), but it doesn't for other people (experienced nobles either aren't involved in combat or will have armsman levels).

Isn't it kinda odd, though, that the best people at fighting (fighters) and the worst both wear armour, but everyone else doesn't?

Back to the topic:

- Nyambe has a Sanguar feat that basically everyone (except foreigners) gets at 1st level. It duplicates the monk bonus to AC from D&D (+1 at 5th-9th level, +2 at 10th-14th, etc).

- You could change the rules so that armour proficiency is required to gain the AC bonus from armour and shields. This could have the side-effect of increasing the front-loading of classes like the fighter, paladin and cleric.

- Simple fix I've seen: give everyone a dodge bonus to AC equal to half their BAB. Yes, this means fighters are the best at dodging, better than rogues. I think it's reasonable; dodging is part and parcel of fighting, and fighters should be the best at that. You could rule that this dodge bonus overlaps with or is negated by the armour bonus from worn armour and shields (slight breakage of the D&D stacking rules, but it's not like they aren't broken in six million places already).

- Just ban all armour heavier than chainmail from the game.

 

[Skywalker]

It's kind of difficult to set up mechanics so that it makes sense for soldiers and inexperienced nobles to wear armor (as they've got money, but limited combat training), but it doesn't for other people (experienced nobles either aren't involved in combat or will have armsman levels). And it can be rationalized pretty well; armsmen simply know more about fighting in armor than anyone else.

Aside: It's a pretty common house rule in WoT that shields grant a Shield bonus to Defense, not an armor bonus (mostly because the idea of algai'd'siswai's bucklers being useless is kind of silly).

I don't think its difficult to get mechanics to do this, so I do find WoT and original SW armour incompatibility a good attempt but not at all satisfactory. WoT again makes more good attempts to solve the issue (and they work OK) but again they are piecemeal and unsatisfactory.

The issue is only made difficult in d20 due to its particular mechanics for armour and hit points. I personally think that SW revised is the best d20 version I have seen so far which retains D&Ds simplicity yet solves this issue. Each person has an ability to defend themselves based on their combat experience. Armour provides an definite and often invaulable advantage to reduce damage but it isn't vital for defence in that not wearing it doesn't subtantially destroy the person's defensive capability.

 

[kenjib]

Then again SW armour DRs would be much higher than D&D equivalents. My guess in D&D is about 1 DR for Light Armour, 2 for Medium and 3 for Heavy.

That's an interesting idea.

- Leave the AC bonuses for armor, and give them an additional DR rating as you suggest.
- Use the WoT rule where they get only the better of their class AC bonus or their armor AC bonus.

This way there is still incentive to use armor even when you no longer get an AC bonus.

 

[Negative Zero]

drquestion, we use a defense bonus and armour damage reduction inspired by WoT in our game (tweaked by our DM). it's worked out great. the campaign is a low magic one, but i think the system would work fine in a regular DnD game, perhaps even better. i'll email it to you if you like. drop me a line at dondredd@hotmail.com (make sure you put DnD in the subject so my junk mail filter doesn't get rid of it)

~NegZ

 

[drquestion]

Thanks!

Thanks for all your really excellent replies, everyone! This will really help when I'm trying to plan what I want to do for defense bonuses in my campaign.

Thanks,
drquestion