AoO and Cleave

[Eye Tyrant]

I'm pretty confident that I ruled correctly last night, but wanted to consult the boards.

Does an AoO that drops a foe allow a Cleave attack?

I say yes; 4 out of 5 of my players agree, yet to appease the 5th I told him I would look into it.

What say the all-knowing Rules Board?

 

[Nail]

Does an AoO that drops a foe allow a Cleave attack?

Yes.

 

[Hypersmurf]

There are a lot of arguments that it shouldn't, and it's frequently house-ruled that way.

But there's not a lot of ambiguity in the rules - it's permitted.

-Hyp.

 

[Nail]

If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach.

That is: It does not matter during what sort of attack you made your opponent drop.

 

[Goolpsy]

But it will grant you additional attacks outside your turn. The only other way to get more attacks outside your turn is by taking combat reflexes, have a high dex, and fight supid opponents.

Weather or not its intended by the SRD i would NEVER EVER allow a player to make a cleave as part of an AOO.
3.5 is also build more up on balance than 3.0 ... which cost alot of sad changes, but i don't think allowing cleave as a part of an AOO is balance wise in any way, nor is it realistic.

 

[irdeggman]

But it will grant you additional attacks outside your turn. The only other way to get more attacks outside your turn is by taking combat reflexes, have a high dex, and fight supid opponents.

Weather or not its intended by the SRD i would NEVER EVER allow a player to make a cleave as part of an AOO.
3.5 is also build more up on balance than 3.0 ... which cost alot of sad changes, but i don't think allowing cleave as a part of an AOO is balance wise in any way, nor is it realistic.

But an AoO is an extra attack outside of your turn in the first place.

 

[Goolpsy]

Indeed. but there is a purpose for combat reflexes, for doing a thing as specificly as that.
Another good point to consider is, that while make an AOO you are limited to certain combat actions, while in normal actions you are not. By getting an attack (that isn't really an AOO) against some other creature, you break the restrictions.

 

[Eye Tyrant]

But it will grant you additional attacks outside your turn. The only other way to get more attacks outside your turn is by taking combat reflexes, have a high dex, and fight supid opponents.

Weather or not its intended by the SRD i would NEVER EVER allow a player to make a cleave as part of an AOO.
3.5 is also build more up on balance than 3.0 ... which cost alot of sad changes, but i don't think allowing cleave as a part of an AOO is balance wise in any way, nor is it realistic.

So if the PC had Combat Reflexes, would it then be "ok" to Cleave after a foe-dropping AoO in your game?

I can see both sides of the argument, but don't see anything that gives me a definite "no" to the Cleave.

 

[Goolpsy]

no I wouldn't allow it either... here's a good example:

A Monk (with some feat from complete warrior granting him an additional attack on a critical) fighting 4 monsters, 2 of which are low on hp, one leaves his treat range fleeing. He gets the AOO and kills it, quickly cleaving the other monster low on hp. If he has great cleave he should now be intitled to attack a 3rd monster, and lets assume he makes a critical hit, he deals damage and gains YET ANOTHER ATTACK. If this monster should die he could always start attacking the 4th monster and in some cases grant him yet another attack, should he score a critical.

So.. 1 monster flee's the Area, 3 monsters goes down, and left are a happy monk thats just made 6 attacks even though it wasn't his turn. This, even without combat reflexes.

 

[Goolpsy]

btw, combat reflexes are limited to a number of AOO acording to your dex. Cleave is not