AoO to trip someone getting up from prone?

[Bagpuss]

Can someone remind me if it was ever resolved if you could use an AoO to trip someone who is trying to get up from being prone?

 

[Elethiomel]

Getting up from prone resolves after the AoO, so no, you can't use an AoO to trip someone who is getting up from prone.

 

[pawsplay]

It's not possible. To get up, you must already be prone, and you cannot trip someone who is prone. Someone who has successfuly stood up is no longer getting up.

 

[Ender_rpm]

From teh SRD:
Stand Up
Standing up from a prone position requires a move action and provokes attacks of opportunity.

I understand the reasoning behind "I'm already flat on my ass, I can't be tripped while I am down here." But... You still have to make a move action to get up, and if you are threatened, then you can be knocked back down again. I don;t understand the ongoing arguement.

 

[Mark Chance]

This is a situation where common sense seems to trump a strict reading of the rules. Anyone who has any experience wrestling or has watched a bit of ultimate fighting knows that, yes, you can be knocked back down while trying to get up from being knocked down.

 

[Caliban]

From teh SRD:
Stand Up
Standing up from a prone position requires a move action and provokes attacks of opportunity.

I understand the reasoning behind "I'm already flat on my ass, I can't be tripped while I am down here." But... You still have to make a move action to get up, and if you are threatened, then you can be knocked back down again. I don;t understand the ongoing arguement.

I think it's a valid interpretation of the RAW to use an AoO to trip someone again as they stand up.

That being said, the FAQ clarified/ruled/errata'd it such that you are still considered "prone" at the time the AoO occurs, so they get the +4 to hit you, but can't use the AoO to trip you.

I use the FAQ version because:

a) Trip attacks are already powerful enough, and being prone sucks.
b) A lot of people ran it the way the FAQ does, even before the FAQ came out, so I accept that as a valid reading of the rules (just not the one that occured to me when I read them).
c) It makes combat flow smoother, and I can cite the FAQ to settle arguements about it. (Not that the FAQ is totally authoritive, but having a DM ruling backed up by the FAQ tends to settle things faster.)

 

[Ender_rpm]

That being said, the FAQ clarified/ruled/errata'd it such that you are still considered "prone" at the time the AoO occurs, so they get the +4 to hit you, but can't use the AoO to trip you.

I think this is probably the crux of the arguement from a number crunching PC point of view, yeah? (Do they get the prone modifier to AC). I can see both sides of that issue. It just makes no sense that I can't knock your silly butt back down when you are trying to get up. As was pointed out, if you have ever done any fighting, thats what happens ALL the time.


And if my character was gettig knocked over THAT much, I'd stop putting myself in a position to have it done to me, no?

 

[Caliban]

And if my character was gettig knocked over THAT much, I'd stop putting myself in a position to have it done to me, no?

The problem is that the 3.5 ruleset makes this nearly impossible if you are melee fighter. In 3.0 standing up didn't provoke, it does in 3.5. FIghting a spiked chain trip monkey or a dire wolf, you risk getting tripped every round.

There is no skill or feat (out of the core rules/complete books) that makes you harder to trip, and outside of increasing your strength, dex, or size there are precious few things you can do.

A character built to deal with being tripped can do alright, but 90% of melee types are not built to resist or take advantage of the trip mechanics.

 

[Ender_rpm]

Ok, so say I'm a melee fighter. If I don't have RIDICULOUS stat boosts to STR, what am I doing? And even then I always have a bow handy somewhere The problem isn't the rule set. Its stupid players who over specialize and whine when they get whacked for it. IME, anyway

 

[Elethiomel]

I think this is probably the crux of the arguement from a number crunching PC point of view, yeah? (Do they get the prone modifier to AC). I can see both sides of that issue. It just makes no sense that I can't knock your silly butt back down when you are trying to get up. As was pointed out, if you have ever done any fighting, thats what happens ALL the time.

One could argue here that what you see in "real world" fighting is people readying an action to knock someone over as soon as they've stood up, which would (mechanically) lead to the result that people who are trying to stand up get knocked over, and then they get punched or kicked while they're down (the AoO).

Also, when you look at real-world fighting - how often do you see someone fight off five or six opponents at once, and keep them all knocked down? That's what could happen if a tripmonkey with Combat Reflexes stands in the middle of a bunch of mooks if you rule that you can retrip on the standing up AoO.

Edited to add:

Ok, so say I'm a melee fighter. If I don't have RIDICULOUS stat boosts to STR, what am I doing? And even then I always have a bow handy somewhere The problem isn't the rule set. Its stupid players who over specialize and whine when they get whacked for it. IME, anyway

My Maug tripmonkey who is very specialised for tripping would LOVE your ruling. He'd keep all the opponents down, all the time.