Apocalypse in Thay (FR)

[painandgreed]

Plus, don't discount the value of normal spying. A 24th level wizard and an artifact don't exist without somebody checking up on them to see what they're up to. This goes double in a paranoid place like Thay. Even if the mage is mind blanked and similarly protected, their counter-intelligence is only worth as much as it takes to bribe somebody who knows. Mundane spies can figure out where they're going, who they're talking to, what they talked about, what purchases they're making, any deviation from past behavior, religious preferences, etc. When all of this info is gathered up and presented to other Red Wizards with super-human Intelligence and Wisdoms, the pieces fall into place and things start to look suspicious. The cost of such spying is probably a line item in the ledger of every Zulkir, if not Red Wizard. To defend against it, a person would have no contact with anybody, not buy anything, teleport everywhere, and not be seen. They could take the heat off somewhat by faking their death, but they'd have to hide themselves from the gods even as everybody and their dog is going to be checking up to make sure they're dead and staying dead.

 

[hero4hire]

Plus, don't discount the value of normal spying. A 24th level wizard and an artifact don't exist without somebody checking up on them to see what they're up to. This goes double in a paranoid place like Thay. Even if the mage is mind blanked and similarly protected, their counter-intelligence is only worth as much as it takes to bribe somebody who knows. Mundane spies can figure out where they're going, who they're talking to, what they talked about, what purchases they're making, any deviation from past behavior, religious preferences, etc. When all of this info is gathered up and presented to other Red Wizards with super-human Intelligence and Wisdoms, the pieces fall into place and things start to look suspicious. The cost of such spying is probably a line item in the ledger of every Zulkir, if not Red Wizard. To defend against it, a person would have no contact with anybody, not buy anything, teleport everywhere, and not be seen. They could take the heat off somewhat by faking their death, but they'd have to hide themselves from the gods even as everybody and their dog is going to be checking up to make sure they're dead and staying dead.

Yeah, I doubt a 24th level wizard would get his hands on an artifact w/o someone noticing.
I doubt the Harper's would allow the needless death of so many innocents. Even Thayans.

It actually sounds like a decent adventure hook. The PCs try to find out why this guy got the artifact, find out he is going to drop the Apocalypse spell on Thay and end up in a moral dilemma as to what to do. Do they aid thier enemies, the evil Zulkirs for the greater good of saving 1000s of innocents?

 

[Darkness]

Do they aid thier enemies, the evil Zulkirs for the greater good of saving 1000s of innocents?

They better should. Otherwise, the red wizards can simply animate many of the dead and have enough laborers anyway. Awaken undead can give them back some sentience if desired and create (greater) undead can turn some citizens into something more useful. Plague of undead (Clr9, Sor/Wiz9) allows relatively cheap mass animation of skeletons and zombies (100 gp total per casting for 4*caster level HD of undead).
Heck, maybe they even have a necromantic artifact they could use for this. And if not, Szass Tam should be able to get one from Larloch. Epic spells work too, of course.
If they (also) enlist the aid of fiends who have these spells as at-will spell-like abilities, it shouldn't take too long to turn thousands of people into undead.

If they are worried about the stench or plague risk, they can cart them off to a place far from where their living people reside.

It'd be a hit to their resources but it wouldn't exactly cripple Thay's might.
It'd certainly change its flavor in a way very much to my liking, though.

 

[Piratecat]

I'd be amazed if a place like Thay doesn't have three people casting a divination every morning, asking "Is a substantial threat to the well-being of Thay going to occur within the next 48 hours?" As soon as someone gets a "yes," they can use other divinations to narrow down the problem.

That's really irrelevant, though, since the event DID take place in Arravis's world -- and an incredibly cool event it is, I'd like to say.

As has been stated, most people in stone buildings would be safe. Everyone in the open and in a wooden building would be dead. Whole forests leveled, many tens of thousands of people dead. All cattle dead, too, and fields destroyed. There would be mass starvation (or imports) come winter, and the average price of food rises across the continent. So does the pay rates of all kinds of craftsmen, as Thay hires anyone it can get their hands on to come help restore the country.

The survivors swear vengeance. As soon as divinations describe the person who did this, the Thayvians attack anyone from his country. They animate undead legions for troops in this little war, using additional undead to help clean up the horrible mess.

Thay also uses massive diplomatic pressure. Nowadays they're traders, right? They use every contact they have to track down and destroy the people responsible.

This, Arravis, is a damn fine campaign hook!

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

Perhaps Tam himself will do this.

He is a lich, so his mind is already markedly inhuman - even by Thayan standards. Further, as a necromancer is has a prefrence for the dead and undead over the living - something boardering on necrophilia. So maybe he grows weary of the other Red Wizards and Zulkirs, and plots to drop this Epic Spell on his own nation, raise scores and scores of undead to send them out to take care of the surivors and wage war on the other zulkirs.

 

[Darkness]

Perhaps Tam himself will do this.

*nods* After finishing my post and thinking how cool an undead-infested Thay would be I began to seriously consider just that.

Velsharoon could do it as well, for that matter.

 

[arscott]

I'd be amazed if a place like Thay doesn't have three people casting a divination every morning, asking "Is a substantial threat to the well-being of Thay going to occur within the next 48 hours?"

Except giving what I've read of Thay (which isn't much to be honest. I've read the novel Red Wizard, but that's about it), It seems like they'd be asking about threats their own well being, rather than the well-being of Thay. And honestly, crises are quite often benificial to those who deal in knowledge and information.

Also, regarding the rebuilding: Bridges are quite a bit more complex than just casting fabricate a bunch of times. Where 10th level wizards might be quite common in thay, is that necessarily true of 10th level engineers? And while the powerful wizards are probably unharmed, the skilled labor force was probably just as decimated as the unskilled.

 

[reanjr]

What do you guys think the overall effect of this would be? Would there be enough infrastructure left for Zulkirs to still remain in control? How would the refugee situation be?

What infrastructure? Most non defensible buildings would be shattered. Most fortresses would suffere terrible damage.

And what refugees for that matter? Almost 100% of the 1st level characters in the area would be killed.

Whoever wanted to be in control would be in control due to the fact that they are alive and everyone else is dead.

 

[Dream]

A very nice idea, Arravis.

In my opinion what upsets people is that they ´re too afraid of changing the official status quo of the Forgotten Realms.
Congratulations for doing it, there are a few DMs who are good/bold enough to change a "thisishowitis" setting. Even though there´s a lot of talk about "It´s your own game, and blah , blah ,blah" the truth is that in many people FR (or Dragonlance, or whatever published world) campaigns the PCs are responsible only for minor events, and most of the big events are handled by the big guys ( Chosen of Mystra, Thay, Zhentarim, etc...).


I find it a bit sad.

Anyways, what you were asking for were opinions on the outcome of the spell casting and I think you got some great answers.

If you ever keep a diary of your campaign, please email me! It certainly sounds reeally cool.

 

[Sammael]

Even though there´s a lot of talk about "It´s your own game, and blah , blah ,blah" the truth is that in many people FR (or Dragonlance, or whatever published world) campaigns the PCs are responsible only for minor events, and most of the big events are handled by the big guys ( Chosen of Mystra, Thay, Zhentarim, etc...).

I find it a bit sad.

Don't you think that's a bit presumptuous?

I have major plans for my FR campaign as well. I have spent months planning how to execute them and still manage to A) make sense in the context of the game; and B) ensure the major Realms NPCs would not have a chance to stop them. I am going to destroy a good part of the Realms in the process, as well as get rid of a number of things that are supposed to be FR "sacred cows." The PCs (average level 13) have recently met Elminster - only to be shocked as he apparently died in front of their eyes (trying to repair a dangerously unstable Mythal by himself). So much for future Chosen interference.

While I tried to offer some insight as to the aftermath of the thread author's plot, I still find it very hard to incorporate that event into what I know of the Realms. If destroying Thay were so easy, why didn't one of the "nonevil" NPCs do it a long time ago, in the name of the greater good, or whatever? In fact, why did the evil wizard who called the apocalypse do it in the first place? He had a very good chance of getting killed himself (from the corruption cost), and destroying an artifact is not typical evil wizardly behavior. I'd like to know more about this.

Szass Tam isn't insane (officially, at least - other DMs may rule otherwise). In fact, he is one of the more sane liches, and certainly sane enough to be able to rule Thay and play other Zulkirs against one another. But it's all done through politics, not magic. IMC, he is currently torn over the fact that every undead creature he creates bolsters his old archrival, Velsharoon (now a deity of undeath), and is trying to find a solution to this "problem."