Apotheosis and clergy -- what would you do?

[der_kluge]

Curious - what does he get as a "godless" cleric?

I think it wouldn't be too out of line to at least give him 0th level spells. But, I suppose that might be crossing a line that you might not want to cross.

 

[CRGreathouse]

Curious - what does he get as a "godless" cleric?

What does he get? +2 Fort, +2 Will on first level, +1 Fort, +1 Will, +1 BAB on second. That's it: his skill points nosedive, he doesn't get a rogue ability or sneak attack, no spells, no domain abilities. I might let him channel energy, but it wouldn't make a power difference at this level (obviously).

But you were right about lines I didn't want to cross. No spellcasting means no spellcasting -- there's no divine power in ritual, not even for orisons...

I'm harsh with godless clerics. I have a particular list of sources for divine power, but most of them have harsh codes of conduct and won't give back power once revoked, even if the ex-cleric atones.

 

[BluWolf]

"Yeah, I know. That's fine. Someone has to be first, right?" the player said.

There is alot of truth and power in this statement. A pioneer by definition enjoys substantially more risk than those tht walk the well trodden path.

I would proceed with the frame work you have in place and let him "suffer" the inconveniences of these early levels of cleric.

But I would create a prestige class that can only be granted to a "prophet" or progeny of a newly ascended diety. I would probably even make the prestige class slightly unbalanced in favor of the player when he got it.

Maybe, take a look at the "chosen" tempalte from the Forgotten Relams for some inspiration.

 

[CRGreathouse]

There is alot of truth and power in this statement. A pioneer by definition enjoys substantially more risk than those tht walk the well trodden path.

I would proceed with the frame work you have in place and let him "suffer" the inconveniences of these early levels of cleric.

But I would create a prestige class that can only be granted to a "prophet" or progeny of a newly ascended diety. I would probably even make the prestige class slightly unbalanced in favor of the player when he got it.

Maybe, take a look at the "chosen" tempalte from the Forgotten Relams for some inspiration.

You have some really good points there. I'll write something up (prestige class, most likely, but maybe a template) for him. Maybe I'll post it over in House Rules once I'm done.

Thanks!

 

[Piratecat]

This is an incredibly cool situation to be in; I really like it.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

(And I thought this was going to be a discussion about Chaosium's Apotheosis system...)

Curious and intrigueing...

For some clarification on the mention of earlier issues, 2E had a system of "Deity, Force or Philosophy". The this extent, priests of "good" worship the "force of good" and thus draw energy from that force. By the same token, priests of "honor" practiced honorable actions and draw energy from their dedication and commitment to their lifestyle (Monks, one might say, gain their powers through this later means).

At any rate, I've a few questions that you probably should ask yourself.

First, the being is more or less evolving into a deity, so at what point in that evolution does it cross-over from a being of flesh and blood to one of spiritual power?

Second, upon crossing this threshold, will it come fully into it's powers as a deity, or will it start at the bottom of that scale and work up (from Divine Rank 0, so to speak)?

The first tells you when and if the character will gain Divine Spells; The second says how quickly they become available to the deity's priests.

My opinion based on what I read: The character cannot be a Cleric of the proto-deity because, plain and simply, there is no such thing. The character can easily and clearly dedicate himself to the being, preach the being's message, work towards conversion in rp-scenarios, etc., without taking a level of Cleric; indeed, taking a level of Cleric is representing mechanically a choice made that, plain and simply, the character never had available to begin with.

Alternate 1: A priestige class of some kind that provides some form of mystical qualities without becoming too "paladinish". My own setting has a major "belief is power" premise as a primary plot-element, so providing such to me seems perfectly reasonable. You may consider a similar reason to bestow some nifty boons for his faith.

Alternate 2: If you plan to have the answers above as "soon" and "progressively", you might allow him to keep the Cleric level (and gain more) while coming up with 10 tasks from the character to fullfill in the name of his patron. The first might complete the process of becoming a deity and make Orisons available (he has plenty of slots); each successive quest completes another step of the deity's ultimate ascention, making each additional Spell Level available. In this manner, the character's numerical power might dip slightly from time to time, but not so severely that he becomes a major burden to the group.

Anyhow, just a few random thoughts...

 

[MerakSpielman]

I'd give him xp just for roleplaying so well. That's just cool that he's willing to give up real abilities for useless levels. Of course, if the object of his devotion ever ascends to godhood, he'll gain spells, and perhaps even a divine favor for being so faithful (and patient).

 

[Nightfall]

I do agree with Merek, extra XP should be awarded. My way of ensuring that the character is compensated, do grant him the ability to cast ONE spell per day. Roll at random to determine it. Also he should make it his cause to get more followers for this creature. (Btw is it from the outer planes or what?)

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

One possible option is to allow the character access to the Dedicated Hero's (from d20 Modern) talent trees, gaining a new talent every other Cleric level. You could perhaps even give the character access to Action Points as a type of finite nascent divine favor.

 

[Nightfall]

Another option I just thought of, invocation benefits from Divine and the Defeated might work well. This can grant up +3 to certain skills, combat powers and even spellcasting abilities.