Apotheosis and clergy -- what would you do?

[Geron Raveneye]

Wow!

Dito on all the comments that suggested a reward for that decision, xp-wise or other...that's something that HAS to be rewarded.

As for the benefits of those cleric levels...I'd tweak the class slightly to show that he's "the First" of his upcoming church. Being the first recognized cleric of a church has a lot of advantages, one of them being that you lead the believers personally.

Maybe give him some more skill points for the first few levels of cleric he takes without gaining spells. Make Perform [Oration] a class skill, and maybe Intimidation as well, considering he and his proto-god are both NE. And most certainly buff up his rep with those who listen and believe in his preaches, because that's what he should be doing to spread the faith.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I do agree with Merek, extra XP should be awarded. My way of ensuring that the character is compensated, do grant him the ability to cast ONE spell per day. Roll at random to determine it. Also he should make it his cause to get more followers for this creature. (Btw is it from the outer planes or what?)

I agree with Merek and you, and I have given the player roleplay XP. He's gone out of his way to make this work -- he's gone so far as to discuss the 'logistical' concerns with the creature: holy symbol, clerical vestments, etc. He spend literally weeks gametime listening to it lecture on it's, uh, dogma. (The player then decided to dump his ranks for the level into Knowledge (religion).)

It's not from the outer planes at all. It's a purely material creature based on the ELH's ha-naga. I rewrote the race, then made a specific individual with better stats and class levels. It currently lives in the former center of an empire, now devoid of life due to a massive magical mishap (not the Ha-naga's fault).

 

[Altalazar]

I think it is cool as hell. And eventually, that first cleric should start to get spells.

In my GW, one of the antagonist NPCs aspired to god-hood, and the players failed to stop him, so he became a god. Ironically, he lost all of his power over the world when he did that - because as a god, he left the world entirely - so there no longer was a 20+ level wizard there to command his armies, which quickly fell apart without his strong hand.

But then a new god was added to my pantheon. In my world, the clergy are defined by - the clergy - the god almost only exists in the abstract. But most worlds aren't that way.

It is really wide open - I would think that semi-divine ought to be able to grant up to level 3 spells - I recall in the earlier editions, low level spells could be gotten for clerics even with all contact with their dieties cut off.

 

[Ruined]

I know there are some rules for cult worship within Path of Faith, by Fantasy Flight Games. I'd give more reference, but I don't have the book with me and haven't read the sections as much as others. Still, as I like the quality of those books, it should be worth checking out.

 

[CRGreathouse]

I know there are some rules for cult worship within Path of Faith, by Fantasy Flight Games. I'd give more reference, but I don't have the book with me and haven't read the sections as much as others. Still, as I like the quality of those books, it should be worth checking out.

I have Path of Faith, but I'm not sure that I like the rules. The cult worship rules are really for abstract worship; the relevant rules, I think, are in the small god section. Unfortunately, I don't think those will work...

 

[jmucchiello]

I think giving him a tanglible chance of calling his proto-deity in a dire circumstance is worth a level or two of cleric without spells. If he is one of the few high level devotees of the proto-deity, when he sends out a prayer, that proto-deity better listen. You said the protodeity (PD) is 32nd level sorcerer. So maybe it can scry the player, and use teleport object to send him tangible aid. Or it can just teleport itself to the location if something really bad is going down.

I would base this ability on the character's attempts to convert others to the worship of the PD. The PD feels a new worshipper converted, he knows whom to be greatful to.

 

[Aaron L]

Well, as cool as it is that he would want to take levels of cleric to show his devotion, I think that the cleric class represents actual learning of divine mysteries and training in casting divine spells, so he shouldn't take it. He should take levels in Expert with a focus on the history and lore of the creature.

Either that, or have the character take levels in cleric and be able to cast divine spells, but get no domains or domain powers. Just have the divine magic pool, which I always imagined was the case anyway. Lower level spells can be gained thrugh pure devotion.

Remember back in 1E when cleric spells weren't actually granted by the gods until 3rd level? 3rd and 4th level spells were granted by intermediaries, and it wasn't until 5th and 6th and 7th level that gods actually granted the spells themselves. 1st and 2nd level spells were gained through pure learning on the part of the cleric.

 

[CRGreathouse]

First, the being is more or less evolving into a deity, so at what point in that evolution does it cross-over from a being of flesh and blood to one of spiritual power?

I don't have any numeric system in mind, but it will be a bright-line boundary -- suddenly, it will ascend in an appropriately flashy way.

Second, upon crossing this threshold, will it come fully into it's powers as a deity, or will it start at the bottom of that scale and work up (from Divine Rank 0, so to speak)?

It will start at the bottom. Actually, it *will* be Divine Rank 0, since I use the D&Dg rules, at least for inspiration.

Alternate 2: If you plan to have the answers above as "soon" and "progressively", you might allow him to keep the Cleric level (and gain more) while coming up with 10 tasks from the character to fullfill in the name of his patron. The first might complete the process of becoming a deity and make Orisons available (he has plenty of slots); each successive quest completes another step of the deity's ultimate ascention, making each additional Spell Level available. In this manner, the character's numerical power might dip slightly from time to time, but not so severely that he becomes a major burden to the group.

The character has (obviously?) done several quests for the Ha-naga, but they've been fairly small so far. More might follow... I'll see what I can do.

 

[Altalazar]

Really, what is the problem with giving full cleric powers - certainly not a balance issue - the class is the class. And this IS a being of at least semi-divine power. Perhaps this is how all dieties get started...

 

[Nightfall]

Still semi-divine don't get to grant spells. Not according to most D&D/d20 sources. That being said, it might be considered that said naga king might be sponsored by another divine power. This might give his followers clerical powers for a time. Especially if said powers are close.