• Resources are back! Use the menu in the main navbar. If you own a resource, please check it for formatting, icons, etc.

4E ARCANE AND PRIMAL SKILLS...

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
This while not brand new material is something I would like to present for posterity originally I wrote it on WOTC forumns and also for possible refinement since you all are awesome

I am a serious fan of making the flavor your own taking skills and manipulating them to fit your character rather than the reverse. My Warlocks intimidate is most definitely a fear spell isnt yours? But in some ways this all inspired me to think of using a feat ie the same kind of character design cost you use for skills as the enabler for a properly themed set of magically flavored abilities ie the feat call it a Talent or Gift allows fast casting of ritual magics... the rituals are then sub-components of a skill. Rather like the specific skill uses. Well enough defined the Gift could then be employed like skills are in a skill challenge type environment.

Invocations of Mecha and Pyrexia

These are Arcane and Primal manipulations associated with Mechanical Devices... They are largely analogous to Thieving and can even be employed in some skill challenges

Knock or the Admittance Spell, Following Hidden Mecha Pathways (make an Arcana Check vs the lock with +5 on the DC but you also add your Wis Mod to offset that (ie the perception attribute) you are sending your minds eye down through the mechanics of the mechanism)I paint runes on the surface of the lock and send my minds eye down the path ways of its mechanics make an arcana check it is difficult unless you are very perceptive however.

Warding the Baneful Device - a glowing rune appears on a complex mechanism such as a trap so long as the glow is active the trap may seem to fire but it is harmless ghostly visuals and hollow sounds without bite and moments later it appears to once more be in an un-triggered state. A successful religion or arcana check befoul this ward and make the trap active once more.

Conjuring of Gremlins - minor demonoids suround the mechanical device gnawing on its pieces, if you dont carefully prevent them they will simply destroy it but you might be able to repair the damage with a purification or some elbow grease and ingenuity after wards as most of the damage is actually cosmetic they arent actually that smart, this might make the device stick open or closed and istn always predictable.

Primal

Bribing Appropriate Spirits - this is Charisma based, the household spirits are really the ones who allow or deny entrance in to a building locks are camouflage (a bowl of milk or similar inocuous thing when properly invoked with mystical forces is usually just the thing to allow entrance as nobody remembers to propiate them these days).

Binding Guardian Spirits - all things have spirits and humans invest mana in the devices they use to protect themselves, forcing one of these to manifest and binding it will disable the device associated with it at least for a time, its not actually that difficult to free such a bound spirit after all the original investor in it was able to manipulate or create this spirit unknowingly.

Conjuring a Spectral Seaman
- this fellow is expert at fixing and repairing boats.
 
Last edited:

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
It looks like while there are many many things which allow various skills to be used as other skills with some being feats and some being paragon powers and however thieving is very rarely on that list with dungeoneering being one of the few...

I think I am feeling quite justified in allowing the Invocations as a feat to enable Int/Cha/Wis based "thievery"
 
Thought of doing that with an actual ritual component cost being the same as hiring one...
Yeah, though frankly I'm not wedded to the costs that 4e uses. Sometimes they make sense, and sometimes they make less sense. I think they were always a bit haphazard about costing stuff that wasn't an item. Heck, they were kinda haphazard even about costing items, though most of those are reasonable.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Suggestion should be a utility, to much for a cantrip, but that's par for the Mage.
A sneaky way to make the Mage a skill monkey too. If someone spends a feat on doing a skill effect with a different attribute that is one thing but cantrips ought to be light? Though I suppose you only get a few of them so opportunity cost isnt super low.
 
A sneaky way to make the Mage a skill monkey too.
I have a Sage of Ages in my campaign. He's always had Suggestion, and before it was "oh, we need an extra diplomacy check, I can do that," no with "push button for auto success on any social check." In 3.5 that'd've been instant diplomancer and broken as all get-out (not that 3.5 mass suggestion didn't fit the bill), but in 4e, /thanks to the Skill Challenge structure/ (and the fact you can't spam a spell by 'memorizing it more than once' or spontaneously slot-casting) it's just another contribution. Arguably 'OP' (it'd be better in that context as a daily utility) but not game-breaking.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
They defined intimidate skill in a way that could have a real impact in combat ... atleast wrt finishing the battle .. but then I see a bunch of things that really ought to be intimidation effects in both Fighters and Warlords and Barbarians and they build them in to powers.

Perhaps these classes could have been written as able to do intimidate as a minor action when combined with basic attack or select powers
 
They defined intimidate skill in a way that could have a real impact in combat ... atleast wrt finishing the battle .. but then I see a bunch of things that really ought to be intimidation effects in both Fighters and Warlords and Barbarians and they build them in to powers.

Perhaps these classes could have been written as able to do intimidate as a minor action when combined with basic attack or select powers
See, this kind of thing is why HoML makes you use a power to do EVERYTHING, ALWAYS. Thus you just have to go look at 'Intimidate' and you find a list of the 'stock' things that can be done with it. Obviously there can be trained things, class-based things, role-based things, and things that you get if you have boon X. This covers a really wide possible range, and if something SHOULD be possible, then it is an 'ad hoc power', that is one that just isn't written up formally.

I'd note that one of the other consequences of this is that when you use 'page 42' it is formally the composition of an ad hoc power. This makes it clear that you can and should describe these things in a power-like way and that they should fit within the framework of powers. The same holds true for things like Terrain Powers.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
See, this kind of thing is why HoML makes you use a power to do EVERYTHING, ALWAYS. Thus you just have to go look at 'Intimidate' and you find a list of the 'stock' things that can be done with it. Obviously there can be trained things, class-based things, role-based things, and things that you get if you have boon X. This covers a really wide possible range, and if something SHOULD be possible, then it is an 'ad hoc power', that is one that just isn't written up formally.

I'd note that one of the other consequences of this is that when you use 'page 42' it is formally the composition of an ad hoc power. This makes it clear that you can and should describe these things in a power-like way and that they should fit within the framework of powers. The same holds true for things like Terrain Powers.
At minimum effects like shouting back off and forcing enemies in radius drops back 5 feat once an encounter or some such.

I would like to see your HOML in more detail
 
At minimum effects like shouting back off and forcing enemies in radius drops back 5 feat once an encounter or some such.

I would like to see your HOML in more detail
Well, I posted a link to a version of it in the thread I started on 4e homebrews. That wasn't TOO long ago so it should be easy enough to find. I think you'll find that what I've written contains very little 'theory' and pretty much just mechanics and basic process. I really would need to write some sections on what the ideas are and how to use them. I suspect you could read all of what I've written (its a lot, you don't have to try) without necessarily picking up on the more theoretical aspects. Also there's a lot of stuff in there that is probably not up to snuff, and a lot of ideas that I've talked about haven't been translated into any concrete form yet.

Still, you may definitely amuse yourself, if you so choose. The first 20 or 30 pages may be the most interesting, as it explicates the core mechanic and describes how characters are built and level.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
This could be seen as the seeds of a Skill based Magic System... almost but its kind of simplistic as the functions are basically a block of thematically combined things using relatively normal skill checks for specific abilities
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I guess a core value of this is recognizing magic is a different not better way to anything but yes it can get many of the same things accomplished a different way and as long as the cost is pretty much the same in terms of character building cost it doesnt matter that much ... just a as a party might have two characters trained in thievery they might have one with the invocations of Mecha and Pyrexia and an overlapping in resulting capacity.
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
One interesting ramification of this would be there would be a need for Skill Powers associated with and styled to go with the Invocations
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Friendly Brownies (a Primal flavored one) level 2 umm Invocation Power
you have a small swrm of forest sprights of some sort that swarm around you they tend to juggle your equipment and pick up things from the ground around you and so on though for the most part it seems out of your control they will also aid you an the things picked up are often very useful even you you have no hand to spare -- that is mostly flavor text ;)
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
Free Action
You may draw or sheathe a weapon, pick up an item in your space or adjacent to it, or retrieve or stow an item
You can use this power only once per round.

More flavor text the brownies also pick up a lot of junk check your pockets
 

Garthanos

Arcadian Knight
I might call those Fae Invocations instead of Primal Invocations but its sort of wish washie overlap in flavor anyway
 

Advertisement

Top