Arcane Divine dual-casting classes

[Thrallherd]

My most effective I mean I want 9th level spells in both classes if possible, not extremely MAD, and some Armor Class wouldn't hurt, either. I was planning on something like this:
Wizard 1/Cleric 1/Wizard +2/Geomancer 1/Arcane Hierophant 10/Mystic Theurge 5.

 

[Jeffrie]

Ya'know that skips wild shape right? and i don't think you have trackless step. Why do you have Geo? for scent?

Druid5/ Wizard1/ AH10/ MT4
19th/9 and 15/8

Druid3/ Wizard1/ AH10/ MT6
19/17 with no scent.

Cleric1/ Wizard1 /Geomancer 1/ MT2/ Wildrunner1/ AH 10/ MT4
17/17 with scent, maybe that's the one you want? Needs at least Heighten Spell and Endurance to qualify.

 

[the Jester]

Geomancer (advances in a weird way)
Mystic theurge (advances both Divine/Arcane)
Arcane Hierophant (Druid/Arcane)
True Necromancer (not considerd a good one though but yes Divine/Arcane)
Fochlucan Lyrist (bard/divine)

Did I miss any?

You could be a Druid/Bard/Arcane Hierophant/Fochlucan but requires much work (ring of evasion, etc).

You can't qualify for prestige classes with magic items AFAIK.

 

[Empirate]

Sure you can. Why not? Just don't lose the item in question, or you'll lose the PrC's benefits.

 

[Visigani]

Sure you can. Why not? Just don't lose the item in question, or you'll lose the PrC's benefits.

What Empirate says is correct.

Let's say you have 12 strength. You can put on a Gauntlets of Ogre Str +1 to get 13. This qualifies you for power attack. Should you ever take the gloves off, or for some other reason not have the ability to qualify for power attack you lose power attack and everything you've gained based on power attack 9such as cleave) and any class features you've gained as a result of qualifying for power attack.

This is written (somewhere) and is Law.



As a side note... this means any time you get zapped with Dave of Enfeeblement and it brings you low enough you should rightfully lose power attack and any and all class features and feats based on power attack.

 

[Deset Gled]

What Empirate says is correct.

Let's say you have 12 strength. You can put on a Gauntlets of Ogre Str +1 to get 13. This qualifies you for power attack. Should you ever take the gloves off, or for some other reason not have the ability to qualify for power attack you lose power attack and everything you've gained based on power attack 9such as cleave) and any class features you've gained as a result of qualifying for power attack.

This is written (somewhere) and is Law.



As a side note... this means any time you get zapped with Dave of Enfeeblement and it brings you low enough you should rightfully lose power attack and any and all class features and feats based on power attack.

Empirate is generally correct (although it is debatable), but you are only half right.

Following your example, lets say you use a magic item to raise strength to apply for Power Attack, then take a PrC that requires PA, then lose the magic item (orr get Enfeebled, poisoned, whatever). When your strength is below 13, you have lost the ability to use Power Attack, but you have not actually lost the feat. You have still spent the slot on the feat, and still possess it for the purposes of qualifying for the PrC. You simply cannot make use of the feat (or any other feat that requires 13+ strength).

This is an important design consideration, and it is very clearly delineated in the way prerequisites are written. Note that all feats that build on other feats have the same base ability scores (ex: Great Cleave specifically lists Str 13+ as a prereq, despite the fact it also requires Power Attack), but PrCs prereqs are never written with an ability score (ex: Shadowdancer requires the Dodge feat, but not Dex 13+). This is an important distinction, and understanding it is critical to properly designing new feats/classes/whatever for v3.5. The reason for this distinction is to stop the exact scenario you mentioned where Ray of Enfeeblement (or poison, etc) becomes a save-or-die spell.

 

[Jimlock]

...that does make some sense.

 

[Visigani]

Empirate is generally correct (although it is debatable), but you are only half right.

Following your example, lets say you use a magic item to raise strength to apply for Power Attack, then take a PrC that requires PA, then lose the magic item (orr get Enfeebled, poisoned, whatever). When your strength is below 13, you have lost the ability to use Power Attack, but you have not actually lost the feat. You have still spent the slot on the feat, and still possess it for the purposes of qualifying for the PrC. You simply cannot make use of the feat (or any other feat that requires 13+ strength).

This is an important design consideration, and it is very clearly delineated in the way prerequisites are written. Note that all feats that build on other feats have the same base ability scores (ex: Great Cleave specifically lists Str 13+ as a prereq, despite the fact it also requires Power Attack), but PrCs prereqs are never written with an ability score (ex: Shadowdancer requires the Dodge feat, but not Dex 13+). This is an important distinction, and understanding it is critical to properly designing new feats/classes/whatever for v3.5. The reason for this distinction is to stop the exact scenario you mentioned where Ray of Enfeeblement (or poison, etc) becomes a save-or-die spell.

Based on this logic a Paladin that dons an alignment reversing helmet would retain all of his class features despite no longer qualifying for the class.

"CW, P16, Meeting Class Requirements:
If a character no longer meets the requirements for a prestige class, he or she loses the benefit of any class features or other special abilities granted by the class. The character retains Hit Dice gained from advancing in the class as well as any improvements to base attack bonus and base save bonuses that the class provided."


Sorry Chum, it's been written in stone. Do you qualify for the class? No? Then you lose all class features. Could you take a new level in it RIGHT NOW if you had the xp? No? Then you lose all class features. Simply having Power Attack in the past does not mean you currently "have" it just like being good in the past doesn't mean you currently have a good alignment.

 

[Jeffrie]

While i see you as mostly right, your quote is for prc and Paladin is a base. Also, paladin has it's own specificity.

I do believe that the word requirement means required. A ring of evasion leaves a Fochlucan10 as a potential nobody.

 

[kitcik]

Based on this logic a Paladin that dons an alignment reversing helmet would retain all of his class features despite no longer qualifying for the class.

"CW, P16, Meeting Class Requirements:
If a character no longer meets the requirements for a prestige class, he or she loses the benefit of any class features or other special abilities granted by the class. The character retains Hit Dice gained from advancing in the class as well as any improvements to base attack bonus and base save bonuses that the class provided."


Sorry Chum, it's been written in stone. Do you qualify for the class? No? Then you lose all class features. Could you take a new level in it RIGHT NOW if you had the xp? No? Then you lose all class features. Simply having Power Attack in the past does not mean you currently "have" it just like being good in the past doesn't mean you currently have a good alignment.

Your example is very different from Deset Gled's and I am not sure you have taken the time to appreciate the difference or the point Gled is making.

Here is the difference. Say a PrC requires a prerequisite.

In your example, you lose the prerequisite --> you lose the PrC abilities.

In Gled's example, you lose the ability to USE the prerequisite, but you still HAVE the prerequisite --> you keep the PrC abilities.

One last thing - you say "you do not currently have Power Attack" - but you DO currently have Power Attack, you ust cant use it. There;s a difference.