Arcobatics and Moving Through Enemy Space

[Tuft]

[...]
If you are trained in Athletics, you can perform an acrobatic stunt [...]

Shouldn't it be Acrobatics for an acrobatic stunt?

 

[timbannock]

You can move through an enemy's space if the enemy is two size categories larger or smaller than you, though it does provoke opportunity attacks. PHB 283

So, a halfling can duck under a giant, or a huge creature can push through the medium PCs squares without acrobatic or athletics checks, they just could take some opp attacks.

If a PC wanted to move through an enemy's space of same size or one size category difference, I would make it an acrobatic stunt and use Pg 42 (opp attacks as normal).

This seems to be the precedent in the rules. Question though: does the acrobatic stunt allow you to ignore OppAttacks, or does only failure result in an OA? Or do you get the OA, and then resolve the stunt?

Just curious. But ultimately I think that's the simplest way to do it, because then the DC isn't set, and situational factors are more critical in judging the DC. Things like:

- are you standing on a table already and thus have height on your opponent?
- is there something low hanging you could use to swing off of?
- are there other items around that could provide a distraction or cover for you to roll under or through, such as tapestries, table cloths, etc?

 

[keterys]

I like that - I can see someone trying to get through a line of guys, two hit with OAs, but one misses so you bump past that guy and continue through.

 

[mattcolville]

Seems needlessly complex.

First, it says an acrobatic stunt is DC 15. Not sure why it needs to be more complex than that.

If I were to decide that a DC 15 is awfully low for something as nice as being able to somersault over an opponent, I'd probably look at Intimidate. Intimidate check vs Will to force a bloodied opponent to surrender.

So, acrobatics check vs Reflex to jump over someone. Seems like if I can completely neutralize someone by forcing a surrender, I should be able to jump over them.

 

[ravenheart]

Seems needlessly complex.

First, it says an acrobatic stunt is DC 15. Not sure why it needs to be more complex than that.

If I were to decide that a DC 15 is awfully low for something as nice as being able to somersault over an opponent, I'd probably look at Intimidate. Intimidate check vs Will to force a bloodied opponent to surrender.

So, acrobatics check vs Reflex to jump over someone. Seems like if I can completely neutralize someone by forcing a surrender, I should be able to jump over them.

Seems about right. Here's an idea though, bear with me:

PASS THROUGH: MOVE ACTION
✦ Target: You can pass through a target adjacent to you that is smaller than you, the same size category as you, or one category larger than you.
✦ Dexterity Attack: Make a Dexterity attack vs. Reflex defense. Do not add any modifiers for the weapon you use.
Hit: You can move your speed through the squares occupied by the target. The squares occupied by the target is considered difficult terrain. You must end your move in a legal square adjacent to the target.
Miss: You fall prone. Your move ends in the last square you could occupy before the attack.
✦ Multiple Pass Through: You can attempt to pass through multiple targets, albeit you take a -2 penalty to your pass through attack for each target you pass through.
✦ Trained in Acrobatics: Enemies take a -2 penalty to opportunity attacks you provoke for passing through and you do not fall prone on a miss unless you couldn't normally end your move in the square you're in.
✦ Impossible Move: If there’s no empty squares adjacent to the target you last passed through, your pass through has no effect. If you couldn't normally end your move in the square you're in, you fall prone.

Modelled after Bull Rush (unless you didn't notice), and here's an addendum to Acrobatics to go with it:

ACROBATIC FEINT [TRAINED ONLY]
You flip and turn, doing cartwheels and somersaults to get out of the way of your enemies.

Acrobatic Feint: Part of a move action
✦ DC: 15. See below.
✦ Uses Movement: You can move half your speed. You can make an Acrobatics check as a free action in response to opportunity attacks provoked by this movement. You take a cumulative -2 penalty to Acrobatics until the end of your next turn for each check you make in response to an opportunity attack.
✦ Success: You reduce the damage taken from the opportunity attack by an amount equal to the difference between your check result and the DC. If this means you would take no damage from the attack, you take no other adverse effect related to it. As soon as you take any damage from an opportunity attack, you fall prone and end your movement.
✦ Failure: You fall prone.

Hope this differentiates enough with Tumble.

Enough for now. Not sure if I should up the DC for Paragon and Epic, though. That just seems awfully clunky to me, though.

 

[NMcCoy]

Haven't checked the math, but my instinct is:
Make an Acrobatics check, opposed by the opportunity attack roll of each enemy you provoke from. (Bonuses that you'd normally get against OAs don't apply to your check result.) If one of them hits your check result, you take damage as normal, fall prone in the closest unoccupied square of the opponent's choice, and lose the rest of your move action.

Oh, and you can only try this once per encounter.

 

[keterys]

That's really far too punishing, NMcCoy. Acrobatics check will steadily go lower than attack possibilities as you get higher level.

 

[77IM]

...but Acrobatics will obliterate attack at low levels. Note that this is the same with Intimidate; monster Will defense should catch up by high levels. It's a general problem with some of the advice on DMG p.42.

I thought 4e was supposed to fix all these mismatched-progression issues...

-- 77IM

 

[keterys]

Will it? +9 to +11 at 1st level as compared to +6 to +8 of 1st level enemies (and up to 4 levels higher in most cases)... so if you try it against multiple enemies you're often screwed. And yeah, when it's 20th level and you're +22 vs. +24-+27 (and up to 4 levels higher...), the screwed is just even more likely. But, still sounds like starts screwed, gets more screwed

And I agree Intimidate should work differently.

 

[Starfox]

My thinking now it to move away from the skill roll entirely; if you are skilled, you can do this.