Are a commoner's (not monk's!) unarmed strikes natural weapons?

[Hypersmurf]

Yes, of course.

Some peole will argue, however, that this doesn't mean that an unarmed strike isn't a natural weapon: in fact, they will say that they are just a different kind of natural weapons, that follow diferent rules.

If unarmed strike is a natural weapon, and if a baboon can make an unarmed strike, then a baboon's bite is not his sole natural weapon, and should not add 1.5x Str bonus to damage.

If unarmed strike is 'a different kind of natural weapon', how does one determine which rules for the normal kind of natural weapon apply (if any!), and which don't?

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I choose not to believe that a monk's fist is demonstrably different than a commoner's fist, and thus I apply the rule that a monk's unarmed strike counts as a natural weapon to a commoner, to an aristrocrat, to a fighter with IUS, and to a Battle Dancer.

Since you choose not to believe that a monk's fist is demonstrably different than a commoner's fist, do you thus apply the rule that a monk's unarmed strike counts as a manufactured weapon to a commoner?

-Hyp.

 

[Egres]

If unarmed strike is a natural weapon, and if a baboon can make an unarmed strike, then a baboon's bite is not his sole natural weapon, and should not add 1.5x Str bonus to damage.

Tha's a good question, but I'm playing devil's advocate here: let's see how will they reply.

 

[Mistwell]

From the SRD:



If you'll find something similar for all the other classes, I'll agree with you: otherwise, I'll not buy that.

In fact, by your reasoning we could say that every class has Detect Evil at will, like a Paladin.

By my reasoning? My reasoning was asking for a rule that counters the other interpretation. I have not stated an opinion.

What you cited does not "counter" it. It does say that the rule is for monks. But where does it say that a commoner does not use their unarmed strikes as natural weapons? Is there anything adding to that?

If not, then all we have to go on so far is the analogy. It's weak, but weak is better than none isn't it?

 

[Seeten]

Actually, a blank statement doesn't help this debate.

An unarmed strike doesn't need to be categorized either as a natural weapon or a manufactured one: is simply an unarmed strike, a subset of unarmed attacks.

What's the problem with that?

Besides that, the fact that the monk's unarmed strike acts in a special manner doesn't make the normal unarmed strike like it: heck, in fact you are making a class feature a general rule.

Poor monk: by your reasoning he fights with his unarmed strike just like any other!

Poor monk hits for 1d20 and flurries with his unarmed strikes. He gets no sympathy from me.

A battle dancer, or a fighter(brawler) or a swordsage(unarmed) who gets to choose INA doesnt bother me in the slightest. Since they chose a terrible dmg, terrible crit weapon that they needed to blow a feat on just to not get AoO'd on, I have no problem giving them favorable circumstances. Plus, its natural that a humans natural weapons, be considered natural weapons, to me.

I wouldnt freak out if someone else ruled differently, but in my game, All unarmed strikes are considered natural weapons.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

I wouldnt freak out if someone else ruled differently, but in my game, All unarmed strikes are considered natural weapons.

Seconded, either it's a natural or a manufactured weapon. They should never have added the complexity and made it clear everything had some sort of natural weapon from the getgo.

 

[Thanee]

I think in 4th edition they will get rid of natural weapons.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Deset Gled]

Unarmed strikes uses the standard BAB attack sequence. Natural weapons use a special attack sequence. Obviously, the two are not the same thing, no matter how "logical" you think that would be.

 

[Mistwell]

Unarmed strikes uses the standard BAB attack sequence. Natural weapons use a special attack sequence. Obviously, the two are not the same thing, no matter how "logical" you think that would be.

Natural weapons sometimes use the BAB attack sequence instead of the special attack sequence, however. See Monk class

 

[Nail]

I think in 4th edition they will get rid of natural weapons.

Yes, please.