Are D&D rulebooks stuck in the 70's?

[hong]

I wish I could figure out something to say to get you to ignore me, hong.

Perish the thought that someone out there could not benefit from my pearls of wisdom.


Hong "bestower of pearl necklaces" Ooi

 

[Azlan]

Perish the thought that someone out there could not benefit from my pearls of wisdom.

Hong "bestower of pearl necklaces" Ooi

Har-har! Well, what do you know? hong has finally said something witty that made me laugh. But, then, I have a weakness for innuendos and double entendres.

 

[hong]

Har-har! Well, what do you know? hong has finally said something witty that made me laugh. But, then, I have a weakness for innuendos and double entendres.

Personally, I have a weakness for pizza and double cheeseburgers.


Hong "it's all about the cheese" Ooi

 

[Tsyr]

Yes, well, what irks me is how broad and loose alignments are considered to be by players, nowadays; and how easily characters can slip from one alignment to another, on the whim of their players.

It irks you that players have control over the personality of their character???

 

[Azlan]

It irks you that players have control over the personality of their character???

No, silly. Players get to choose the alignments of their characters, do they not?

What irks me is that, once they've chosen an alignment, many players lack the insight and the self-restraint to roleplay that alignment. Thus they, personally and individually, define the constraints of those alignments as being broader and looser than they actually are, or they simply deviate from one alignment to another. And since 3E doesn't really penalize players for doing this, it's considered to be "okay".

 

[Bendris Noulg]

No, silly. Players get to choose the alignments of their characters, do they not?

What irks me is that, once they've chosen an alignment, many players lack the insight and the self-restraint to roleplay that alignment. Thus they, personally and individually, define the constraints of those alignments as being broader and looser than they actually are, or they simply deviate from one alignment to another. And since 3E doesn't really penalize players for doing this, it's considered to be "okay".

This is why I use the Alignment/Apotheosis system from Chaosium's Dragonlords of Melnibon'e (expanded to include Good/Evil). This permits me (the DM) to define what acts are considered Good, Evil, Lawful and Chaotic, and to assign Point Values to these actions. Then, as the PC performs specific deeds through game play, I award the points as necessary.

The Player can state that they are attempting to play one alignment, but they are not actually that alignment until their points reach a certain ratio to each-other. This also effects how they are effected by detect [alignment] and protection from [alignment] spells, Smite attacks and the like.

 

[Tsyr]

No, silly. Players get to choose the alignments of their characters, do they not?

What irks me is that, once they've chosen an alignment, many players lack the insight and the self-restraint to roleplay that alignment. Thus they, personally and individually, define the constraints of those alignments as being broader and looser than they actually are, or they simply deviate from one alignment to another. And since 3E doesn't really penalize players for doing this, it's considered to be "okay".

Like I said...

Alignment isn't a stat, ok? It's not a quirk, or a flaw, or a feat, or anything else. It's just a representation of attitudes of your character. When you pick your alignment on character creation, you're not doing something like putting that 18 in STR, or choosing dodge as a feat... Your just saying, effectivly, "Ok, up to this point, my character has been chaotic, but overall a good guy (CG)". You're not, however, saying "Ok, my character is Chaotic Good in the very depths of his soul, and will therefor always be chaotic good".

 

[Wormwood]

Alignment isn't a stat, ok? It's not a quirk, or a flaw, or a feat, or anything else. It's just a representation of attitudes of your character.

Really? I thought alignment was supposed to be a hammer that DM's used to smack their players around.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Alignment isn't a stat, ok? It's not a quirk, or a flaw, or a feat, or anything else. It's just a representation of attitudes of your character. When you pick your alignment on character creation, you're not doing something like putting that 18 in STR, or choosing dodge as a feat... Your just saying, effectivly, "Ok, up to this point, my character has been chaotic, but overall a good guy (CG)". You're not, however, saying "Ok, my character is Chaotic Good in the very depths of his soul, and will therefor always be chaotic good".

Well, while I agree with your last sentance, I don't agree with the rest. Alignment determines a wide array of things: How outsiders view you, how you "react" to certain spells and aligned magic-items, etc. Granted, it shouldn't be a straightjacket, as the book says, but it does have distinct mechanical effects that are measurable in game terms. That makes it a bit more than a simple "representation of attitudes", but a mechanic that can benefit or hinder the character within even the most basic of in-game scenarios.

 

[Tsyr]

Well, while I agree with your last sentance, I don't agree with the rest. Alignment determines a wide array of things: How outsiders view you, how you "react" to certain spells and aligned magic-items, etc. Granted, it shouldn't be a straightjacket, as the book says, but it does have distinct mechanical effects that are measurable in game terms. That makes it a bit more than a simple "representation of attitudes", but a mechanic that can benefit or hinder the character within even the most basic of in-game scenarios.

Actualy, I wasn't trying to deny any of that... It's a point I've made myself in other threads.

The aim of what I was saying, basicly, was that alignment, as opposed to basicly anything else in the game, is not "fixed" in any way. It's something that changes based on what you do, instead of changing what you do based on it, if you follow.