Are Druids regarded as the most powerful class in 3.5?

[Hammerhead]

The bolded spells are hardly capable of "raining down destruction".



Both of which are pathetically easy to hit. And once the Cleric kills the animal companion, the druid had better hope that his quarterstaff will be enough to kill the injured Cleric.

Don't get me wrong, the Druid is pretty good all around, but he isn't amazing at any one thing. I'm still of the opinion that the Cleric is still king among the classes, but YMMV.

The Animal Companion probably trips or grapples like a mofo...far better than the cleric could likely contend with. Can an AMF'd Cleric win a grapple against a dire bear? I don't think so!

One counterpoint to the druid's awesomeness is the fact that we're considering single class characters. A druid can't get too much out of prestige classes (unless they don't care about either wild shape or spellcasting), whereas there are several great PrCs for the cleric.

 

[Hammerhead]

I will ask -- who says the Cleric has to go toe-to-toe? Most of the really effective cleric examples I've seen have been archers. You can make a powerful cleric melee fighter, but they can use archery to make a point, too, no pun intended.

Wind Wall
Evocation [Air]
Level: Air 2, Clr 3, Drd 3, Rgr 2, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Wall up to 10 ft./level long and 5 ft./level high (S)
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

An invisible vertical curtain of wind appears. It is 2 feet thick and of considerable strength. It is a roaring blast sufficient to blow away any bird smaller than an eagle, or tear papers and similar materials from unsuspecting hands. (A Reflex save allows a creature to maintain its grasp on an object.) Tiny and Small flying creatures cannot pass through the barrier. Loose materials and cloth garments fly upward when caught in a wind wall. Arrows and bolts are deflected upward and miss, while any other normal ranged weapon passing through the wall has a 30% miss chance. (A giant-thrown boulder, a siege engine projectile, and other massive ranged weapons are not affected.) Gases, most gaseous breath weapons, and creatures in gaseous form cannot pass through the wall (although it is no barrier to incorporeal creatures).

While the wall must be vertical, you can shape it in any continuous path along the ground that you like. It is possible to create cylindrical or square wind walls to enclose specific points.

The Druid apparently says that the cleric has to go toe to toe.

 

[Nifft]

I will ask -- who says the Cleric has to go toe-to-toe? Most of the really effective cleric examples I've seen have been archers. You can make a powerful cleric melee fighter, but they can use archery to make a point, too, no pun intended.

This is an excellent point. Archery is still quite viable in 3.5e (even if it's not nearly as insane as it was in 3.0e, when greater magic arrows stacked with greater magic bows).

However... Druids control the weather. Wind can ruin an archer's day.

And both classes have some VERY effective ranged spells, as well as the ability to call in summoned help, so I would suggest it's a little closer than the one-sidedness people are suggesting. In fact, many of the spells that clerics get, the druid only gets anywhere from 2 to 4 levels LATER than the cleric. In only a few cases, such as flame strike, does a druid get his powers sooner than a cleric.

Druids get faster access to:
- Flame Strike
- Elementals

Clerics get exclusive access to:
- Outsiders
- Gate


If a Cleric gates in a Solar, Pit Fiend, or Balor, he may win the fight. Also, Clerics get miracle. Those are both hard-core fight-changers.

Is gate better than shapechange? That's an open question. I'm honestly not sure. At those levels, it probably all comes down to who wins initiative... and Clerics can't cast cat's grace.

So, in conclusion, I don't actually know who'd win. From level 5 to level 16, it's the Druid by a mile, but starting at 17 it opens up again.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Crothian]

The Druid apparently says that the cleric has to go toe to toe.

Or the cleric sits back and waits for the spell to end. If the Druid would want to go toe to toe, the Druid has to leave the wall.

 

[IcyCool]

Or the cleric sits back and waits for the spell to end. If the Druid would want to go toe to toe, the Druid has to leave the wall.

Ssshhh! Can't you see he's got a good Druid bash on?

 

[Hammerhead]

Or the cleric sits back and waits for the spell to end. If the Druid would want to go toe to toe, the Druid has to leave the wall.

Nothing prevents the druid (or the cleric, for that matter) from hurling spells or summoning swarms of elementals to crush their enemies. But the druid is safe from ranged volleys of arrows.

 

[IcyCool]

The Animal Companion probably trips or grapples like a mofo...far better than the cleric could likely contend with. Can an AMF'd Cleric win a grapple against a dire bear? I don't think so!

It is pretty unlikely that the AMF'd Cleric can win a grapple against a dire bear. And with the close-quarters fighting feat, he pretty much never has to. *shrug* We could play paper-rock-scissors all day, but we wouldn't get anywhere.

I'm curious about another question though. I hardly ever see druids in play, how often do you see them?

 

[Crothian]

I'm curious about another question though. I hardly ever see druids in play, how often do you see them?

My last character was a Druid but I've only seen three played in all the time of third edition and two of them were played by me.

 

[Crothian]

Nothing prevents the druid (or the cleric, for that matter) from hurling spells or summoning swarms of elementals to crush their enemies. But the druid is safe from ranged volleys of arrows.

And nothing prevents the cleric from moving to get a better angle with arrows.

But I agree with IcyCool cool, it is a pointless discussion.

 

[Hypersmurf]

however, WotC may have ruled at some point that Druids don't get the "Animal" subtype like it says they do in the rules, so that would be stifled.

Well, the rules don't say they do any more

Wildshape is based of Alternate Form, not Polymorph, and Alternate Form doesn't change your type.

-Hyp.