Are Eladrin the New Gnomes?

[Dausuul]

How many different elves does this game need?

It needs high elves, half-elves, grey elves, wild elves, wood elves, aquatic elves, dark elves, fire elves, arctic elves, jungle elves, desert elves, star elves, ghost elves, painted elves, and winged elves. And maybe Santa's elves, just to round out the set.

(I know, the sins of the old edition do not nullify the sins of the new one, but I couldn't resist.)

 

[Dragonbait]

I think Eladrin already have more survivability by not being medium sized, are very attractive, and have a niche. Three things that really seem to help a race survive and become popular. The gnomes did not have any of those. Yeah, they did have a nice once they tried to couple the least popular race with what this site says is one of the least popular classes.

 

[Dragonbait]

ooo triple post

 

[Dragonbait]

triple post

 

[Harr]

Gnomes had to go... they had no niche, they were in the middle between halfings and dwarves, a little bit of both, no real identity, no flavor except being sort of one thing and sort of another, you now? Really, there was no other way, it was obvious... they had to go.

What's that? Half-elves? No, they're perfect.

 

[lutecius]

To me they're the old elves. There has always been plenty.

Why is the question, they aren't particularly interesting; no more than any other race.

Uh... they're hotter? They've got that exotic and mysterious thing going on without being tail-less boobed lizards, frowning goatzillas or bearded tubbies? Hey, they're not even shorter than humans anymore.

Sure, some players are into freaky characters but they're a minority and each freak fetish, taken separately, is an even smaller minority.

The major difference between elves and gnomes is that the midget niche was too small to be divided and wasn't worth two entries.(personally i would have axed the halfling, but I guess they thought the LotR movies would make halflings more popular)

 

[Harr]

Frankly I think the reason why half-elves are still in is the diametrical opposite reason as to why half-orcs aren't. To wit:

Fan: Hey, why did half-orcs get cut?
Designer: Oh, well, their origins represent something that we don't really like to think about.

Fan: So why are half-elves still in, then?
Designer: Oh, well, their origins represent something that we do like to think about. You know. Constantly. *smile*

(I only kid of course In both my posts. I actually am kinda fond of half-elves as a race.)

 

[Felon]

How many different elves does this game need?

Eladrin, Elves, and Half-Elves in the PHB just seems excessive.

The entire point of introducing eladrin into the PHB is that they aren't a different type of elf. They're not a subrace of elves. They're eladrin.

Eladrin and elves now connote two separate and in many ways completely opposite cultural identities. Eladrin hang out in libraries. Elves hang out in treehouses. Eladrin wear silk and perfume. Elves wear fur and smell like dirt.

With time, those differences should become pretty pronounced. But right now, most of just see that they both have pointy ears so they're both elves.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Gnomes had to go... they had no niche, they were in the middle between halfings and dwarves, a little bit of both, no real identity, no flavor except being sort of one thing and sort of another, you now? Really, there was no other way, it was obvious... they had to go.

I'm so, so tired of hearing opinions about gnomes stated as facts.

Oh, and enjoy your not-halflings which we got for no discernible reason. They're not hobbits, they're not kender, they're dreadlocked swamp folk, just like in your favorite novel ... no, that's not it. Just like in your favorite movie ... no, not that, either. Just like in your favorite videogame ... no, not that. Huh.

Yes, clearly gnomes had to go to allow halflings to retain the historically important niche: "We need a race called halfling in this book."

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Yes, clearly gnomes had to go to allow halflings to retain the historically important niche: "We need a race called halfling in this book."

No, the halfling niche has always been "small, dexterous thieves". They continue to fill that niche exactly. They just got filled out with a bit more detail. Since previously the question to "what is halfling culture like?" was up in the air...and in a lot of campaign settings was "They live with humans...so the same as humans...only smaller."

Now they have their own unique culture to go with their original niche.

Whereas, I still can't come up with a niche for Gnomes that makes any sense.

Big nosed Illusionists who talk to burrowing animals? Maybe...but is this niche broad enough? It only encompasses players who want a subclass of wizard and that's it.

Dwarves who like technology? I guess that's rather unique...but most D&D worlds don't HAVE technology like Gnomes are depicted as having. Plus, they still end up as Dwarves with a small difference.