Are Gognards killing D&D?

[WyzardWhately]

I really like the idea of a small boxed set for attracting new players. One could include only the four classes of Fighter, Cleric, Wizard, Thief together with the more used weapons, feats, and spells. People who already play the game would never buy this, since much material would be gone, but new players would be attracted to it for ease of reading and price. The rules would be completely compatible with the main 4e system of three core books, just with omissions.

This is what I'm in favor of. Much better than just a single adventure. Let it take characters up to level six or so, and everything you need is in one box. Probably some cheap plastic figs for the PCs and a bunch of cardboard pog/token/thingies for orcs and whatnot.

 

[Cthulhudrew]

Yeah, but i wasn't even alive when it came out. It seems like most of the forum members here have wives, kids and steady careers. I would say that the market for D&D should try to be 13+. The younger you get them the better.

That's probably true from the perspective of Hasbro/WotC, but honestly- historically- D&D was created by and for an older gamer market when it came out.

 

[Talislan]

Thank you!

I don't understand why we, as role-players, get in a "versus" mentality. d20 vs. C&C vs. True20 vs. AD&D...and so on and so forth.

RPGs are kind of like ice cream. We may not all agree on the particular flavor, but we all like ice cream....

You're welcome... oh and Nice analogy.

T.

 

[Khairn]

If the hobby is going to survive as a whole, then it needs to attract new, young players and DMs.

Complete agreement

There has been a lot of hate concerning 4E. I would say that the sides stand at about 50/50. Why has this divided our community? Because WOC is changing things to appeal to new gamers?

Complete disagreement. As a gamer who's been labeled a "grognard" because I don't support 4E, I think the majority of the 4E "hate" is not due to a knee-jerk reaction to anything that's new. I feel that WotC has failed to convince many customers on the need for a change. If your customers don't believe that a change will be beneficial, then why should they support it?

When WotC announced 3E, there was some moaning from players who liked AD&D, but the support for the new edition was clearly evident. Why? Because WotC's customer believed a new edition would improve their games. I don't see that across the board support for 4E. But if its not there, don't blame your fellow customers.

 

[Riley]

First, let me say that I deeply respect the opinions of our most veteran players and DMs. A recent poll of ENworld showed that over 80% of members played 1st edition. This seems really bad for the hobby as a whole. If you started playing the game when it first came out, this means you would be in your forties by now. ...

So, before you start to rant in threads about how this and that are not how they did it back in the day, ask first "is this going to attract new players"? If the answer is yes, then its good for the game. Start looking at you children and nephews, at those punk kids across the street. What would it take to get them to start gaming?

Hmmm. There are many errors in this line of thought. The main two are:

1) having played 1st Ed does not make one 40+ years old.
I played D&D 1e for a full 8 years before the publication of 2e. I was a kid then, and I am now only(?) 37. I could've started playing before 2e and still be in my very late 20's.

2) Being old does not make one a grognard.
You're only a grognard if you decide to be a grognard.
I haven't played D&D with any teenagers in quite a while, but I've had the pleasure of playing with some 20-25 year olds, and there's been no generation divide at the table.
I loved 1e, I love 3.5e, and I'm excited about 4e. Anybody remember 1e pummeling? Yeesh. The game moves on, and at this point, I could only be convinced to play a 1e game for a laugh and a trip down memory lane.

 

[Greg K]

Two of my players are around 20, started playing DND with 3.5, and, as are most of the people their age with whom I work, heavily into anime. Neither are happy about the release of 4e. They do not care for most of the stuff information thathas been revealed so far. They even consider the Paladin ability that heals an ally when striking an opponent to be extremely lame.

Now as for myself, I started with 1e and stuck around for 2e (which kept me playing ADND longer than I would have) before moving on to other games. I will never play either 1e or 2e again.

3e brought me back with the underlying mechanical changes and, with all the wonderful third party products, I was looking forward to 4e and some more mechanical changes. However, I am not impressed with the direction of 4e based upon what has been revealed and almost certainly won't be switching- there is still time for that to change.

 

[Talislan]

.....
I want our game to attract those who aren't afraid of using their imagination, using their intellect, aren't afraid of complex rules, are willing to put the time in.
Should we try to get our ranks to swell? Absolutely!
But should we sacrifice the game we love to meet this goal? NO!

and my point as made in this thread above reiterated...

nobody is asking you to sacrifice anything people. This kind of thinking in my opinion is what comes across badly to others.

You are being given a new game, based on a previously successful theme. nobody is taking away your old toys though. They are leaving them as they are for you to cherrish as long as you chose. No, there will be no new pieces for your old game. It has been left in your hands to decide its future....As it always has.

it is as in any adventure your choice.
Goodevening folks and happy gaming.

T.
Mint Choc chip anyone?

The boundaries of success are held only by the limits of your imagination

 

[Brother MacLaren]

When WotC announced 3E, there was some moaning from players who liked AD&D, but the support for the new edition was clearly evident. Why? Because WotC's customer believed a new edition would improve their games. I don't see that across the board support for 4E. But if its not there, don't blame your fellow customers.

I think there was much more widespread dissatisfaction with 2E, especially after the 2.5 material. Then TSR went bankrupt and it looked like the hobby would be dead. 3E was extremely welcome news as I recall.

On the other than, 3.5 had just seen the release of a number of neat options that went a long way towards fixing people's problems with 3.5. Reserve feats, so your wizard would never need to use a crossbow if that was a problem for you (or the Warlock, if you never wanted to run out of magical abilities ever). Skill tricks, expanding the rogue's abilities. Tome of Battle classes, if you wanted a more complicated fighter with per-encounter abilities. PHBII, if you wanted higher-power fighter-only feats. Brand-new spells and magic item rules in those Compendiums. And you always had the option to start campaigns at higher levels if you felt level-1 characters were too frail.

So for those who saw facets of 3.5 as flaws, a whole ton of new material had just been released to fix those flaws. For those who didn't see them as flaws, they were just *options*. You could still play a wizard who accepted the risk of running out of spells in exchange for greater power and versatility. You could still play a PC who is no tougher than the a city guard recruit but is a hero by virtue of choosing to stand up when nobody else will. You could still play a basic fighter.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

In my groups, the oldest of the players are more pro-4E, that being myself and another player, while the younger ones are of the view that its not needed.

I agree with other posters that there is a lot less perceived need for a new edition than there was for the 2E/3E changeover, but I think that's inevitable - TSR and 2E were such a mess that 3E really felt like a blast of fresh air.

 

[Cadfan]

In my groups, the oldest of the players are more pro-4E, that being myself and another player, while the younger ones are of the view that its not needed.

I agree with other posters that there is a lot less perceived need for a new edition than there was for the 2E/3E changeover, but I think that's inevitable - TSR and 2E were such a mess that 3E really felt like a blast of fresh air.

I hope the standard for when a new edition is due is not "when its needed as much as 3e was needed." Its like saying that you're not allowed to buy a new car until you're running from the wreck screaming and covered in burning gasoline.