Are Gognards killing D&D?

[Wanderer20]

The comparison from soviet Russia has sense, they just give a scrap of information and you are allowed only to praise them. Or shut up.

After reading for monthes in this forum (that unlike the WotC one allows one to speak ill of 4E without be silenced "because he damages the community"), I agree with those who said the 4E SRD is already 90%-95% written, and they put, for instance, 4 feats in the excerpt while they could put 40; the basic feats, the one the system is built on, cannot be changed at this point if the release is May (much more than the basic feats, in facts).

So why hide informations you could give? My answer is obvious: it would have damaged the sales (the same way speaking bad of 4E damages them, I suppose).

And why revealing the system would damage sales? Rhetoric question.

It is not a matter of bashing, "grognards", miscalculations, lack of excerpts, or anything else.

If you want to praise WotC or 4E, whatever your reasons, do it. But feel free to remember that everyone is entitled to his opinion, and everyone has the right to express it, even if doing so hurts your feelings or expectations.

 

[Aeolius]

10 pages of replies? Way to go, Grognards!

Take that, 4e! "Get back in there!, down down down!, go go go!, mine mine mine! YAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!"

 

[Mortellan]

10 pages of replies? Way to go, Grognards!

Take that, 4e! "Get back in there!, down down down!, go go go!, mine mine mine! YAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!"

Classic Daffy Duck quote there Aeolius. How fitting for a Grognard topic.

 

[Wanderer20]

Classic Daffy Duck quote there Aeolius. How fitting for a Grognard topic.

I suppose in my previous topic I could have called your like "immature children" and remain politically correct

 

[carmachu]

That's been said ever since C&C was being developed. "Real soon there's going to be a game that is more D&D than D&D and then WotC are going to feel the hurt!"

It hasn't happened yet. Might it happen a few years down the line?

No.

The alternatives are up against a company with world-wide marketing reach, with distribution to book stores and gaming stores down pat, with an advertising budget that probably exceeds the total budget of the developers of OSRIC and C&C put together.

I don't see D&D being in the least threatened by the likes of OSRIC or C&C.

And if it were to be, I think WotC would be quick to react to this, releasing an official version of D&D that would directly compete with the alternatives. Heck, they might do that anyways, since basic versions of the game has been part of their strategy since forever.

But I will concede that if WotC rests on its laurels, and think that the above advantages automatically guarantees the continued domincance of D&D without them working pro-actively to make it so, they might be in for a world of hurt.

I have seen no indication that such a thing is happening. Other people think it's obvious that such a thing is happening. Only time will tell who's right.

/M

The same has been said about games workshop...their too big, too much of a market giant, too much market share. And while thier still on top, they arent nearly as healthy an robust as they once were.

Did one single small company kncok them down? Nope...but what is and has happened is deasth by a thousand cuts. each small one takes a bite, and those bites add up as costomers are dissatisfied.

Wotc might want to take a lesson.

 

[Fifth Element]

The same has been said about games workshop...their too big, too much of a market giant, too much market share. And while thier still on top, they arent nearly as healthy an robust as they once were.

Did one single small company kncok them down? Nope...but what is and has happened is deasth by a thousand cuts. each small one takes a bite, and those bites add up as costomers are dissatisfied.

Wotc might want to take a lesson.

D&D will never be as dominant as it once was. There are relatively few barriers to entry into the RPG market. So smaller companies can pop up, take a small slice of WotC's market, and there's really not a thing WotC can do about it.

D&D was first, and is still the biggest RPG, but it is inevitable that it will slowly decline in market share, given the nature of the market. Not WotC's fault, and little they can do about it.

 

[Ty]

I would disagree with you on that bit of pessimism Fifth.

The barriers to entry to market have been minimized with respect to publishing due to Adobe and online distribution but that is an overall small piece of the pie in the RPG industry. A large amount of capital and investment is necessary to transition D&D from a niche entertainment publishing company to having an actual entertainment product line. If they keep relying on print books and edition updates alone, they will of course, lose their market to the niche players that are scrapping at their heels (niche publishers like yours of course).

What the brand manager here is failing to do is to create or find a new market for D&D. Yeah, the movies did fantastic didn't they? Same with D&D Online. There has been a pretty consistent failure by TSR, WotC, and Hasbro to provide creative additions to their core business with a high level of quality and customer satisfaction. Part of the reason for this of course, is the same problem GW had; they're the big kids on the block like GM used to be.

 

[carmachu]

D&D will never be as dominant as it once was. There are relatively few barriers to entry into the RPG market. So smaller companies can pop up, take a small slice of WotC's market, and there's really not a thing WotC can do about it.

D&D was first, and is still the biggest RPG, but it is inevitable that it will slowly decline in market share, given the nature of the market. Not WotC's fault, and little they can do about it.

That may be true. but there are things to do to mitigate the decline. I see a parrallel between them and Wotc. Its not a perfect one, mind you, different items here and there, but overall it is like watching a trainwreck in slow motion for a second time.

No one cannot deny Wotc is a business, and a need to make money. BUT...I'm saying alienating your veteram base and banking on the new comers isnt always the best option in a niche market. GW tried that and they're in the bad position their in now....word of mouth, especiallly from the established is their best advertising.

*shrug* wil it backfire? Will it succed in making D&D even bigger? Dont know....I do know I've seen this rollercoaster before......and would issue a caution to those that are certain that 4e will bring in new folks by the truckload.....shutting down your critics, the gognards because...well pick whatever reason, isnt the smartest thing.(doesnt mean their right either, or dont have their own issues, but swallowing it all without critical thinking doesnt seem wise.)

 

[carmachu]

What the brand manager here is failing to do is to create or find a new market for D&D. Yeah, the movies did fantastic didn't they? Same with D&D Online. There has been a pretty consistent failure by TSR, WotC, and Hasbro to provide creative additions to their core business with a high level of quality and customer satisfaction. Part of the reason for this of course, is the same problem GW had; they're the big kids on the block like GM used to be.

Dissmissing the veterans was one of GW's bigger failures. It wasnt the only one, and they're reversing the trend, but its damage done.

Doesnt mean your veteran base is always right, nor get what they want...but their absolute dismissal of criticism and concerns isnt right either. the title of this thread shows that attitude....

 

[WayneLigon]

What the brand manager here is failing to do is to create or find a new market for D&D. Yeah, the movies did fantastic didn't they? Same with D&D Online.

I doubt that the brand manager has any say so over those particular things - I'd love for Rouse to answer that question. The first D&D movie rights were acquired before WoTC even existed and they had virtually no input or creative control over the film. I would highly doubt that they had any sort of 'yes/no' authority on the second one; it's very rare that producers allow that to happen. I suspect they're much like book authors: the dealings happen at a higher level and they have to sit there and watch what happens just like we do.

I dunno how much yes/no input they had to D&D Online but again I would expect it to be minimal.