Are high level truenamers viable?

[victorysaber]

I'm not sure if this question has been asked before. If it is, I apologise for rehasing it again.

Truenamers (from the Tome of Magic) seem impossible to use at higher levels. Let us take a 20th level truenamer for instance. The Truespeak check for an opponent of equal level is 15 + (2 x 20) = 55. The Truespeak check for a boss level opponent is 15 + (2 x 24) = 63.

The average Truespeak bonus at 20th level would be: 39
23 (skill ranks)
11 (ability score of 33: 18 base + 5 natural increase + 5 enhancement + 5 inherent)
3 (Skill Focus)
2 (+2/+2 skill feats, though I couldn't find one)

With a Truespeak bonus of 39, one must roll 16 or better to affect an opponent of equal level, and it would be impossible to affect a boss level opponent.

With that in mind, it seems that the high level truenamer seems rather ineffective. Am I missing something?

 

[Hammerhead]

Couldn't someone make an item that would give you a +15 bonus to your skill check by that level?

 

[victorysaber]

An item sounds like a great idea!

But how about within the rules of the book? As in nothing custom-made... is there no way?

 

[Anguirus]

There is an item right in the book that gives you a +10 enhancement bonus to Truespeak checks. The book basically assumes that you are able to procure it.

But yeah, it's a messed-up system. Because of the way skills work, a high-level truenamer is usually either useless or amazing at affecting individual enemies, mostly depending on how many obscure skill bonuses you can find to rack up. And regardless, he can easily affect items and the Earth itself, so he might be able to cause earthquakes all the live long day without being able to do a few d6 of damage to a CR 20 foe.

 

[Fishbone]

Item familiar, stacking bonuses and items up to +20, the ability to get +5 to a skill check, max ranks, buff your Intelligence, Skill Focus. Bam, now its too EASY to make your checks This has all been said a billion times before in the billion threads adressing this seeming imbalance.

 

[JustKim]

Are high level truenamers viable?

Nope!

Item familiar

"Viable" and "scrounging for bonuses wherever you can get them to offset a continual decline in ability" are two different things I'm afraid!

 

[DM_Matt]

The other wrinkle is the HD/CR ratios of creatures. At CR20, non-human-classed creatures can have many more HD, and the DC is HD-based. Or, they could have less. However, the power of the Truenamer fluctuates wildly with the way a creature is constructed in terms of HD vs other forms of power.

 

[Cadfan]

The truenamer is fine. It presumes you will use the items in the DMG and the Tome of Magic, and that you will pursue a high Truespeak check as a priority.

At level 1, with a 16 int, skill focus Truespeak, and 4 ranks, you will succeed vs a CR1 opponent on a 7.

At level 20, with an initial 16 int, +5 from levelling up, +5 inherent bonus, +6 enhancement to int from headband of intellect, 23 ranks, and +10 enhancement to truespeak checks from a truespeak amulet, you succeed vs a CR20 opponent on a 6. Also worth mentioning is that at this level, you get to stay at the success on a 6 for a lot longer because you have more utterances.

The DMG also includes Luck Stones, which grant +1 luck bonus to all skills, and pale green ioun stones, which grant competence bonuses to all skills.

Some people feel that its wrong for a character class to expect this degree of optimization. I disagree with these people on the grounds that the wizard requires exactly the same degree of optimization (minus the amulet) if you intend to use spells with saving throws at high levels. I further disagree with those who feel that these requirements make the class "worthless." The fact that you feel there is something objectionable about making equipment so integral to a spellcasters class features is not the same as the class being worthless. That's just a matter of taste. The fact that the class doesn't succeed if you impose upon it your own aesthetic tastes just means that the class may not be for you.

 

[victorysaber]

Thanks for the replies... okay I see how the truenamer is viable now.

 

[The Forsaken One]

The idea for the class is awsome, to have that idea executed by implementing a skill based system is not.