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Are megadungeon still a viable play experience?

Pog

First Post
All the rage not that long ago, I'm working on a mega dungeon to DM later this year. But, even though players seem excited, I have a niggling doubt that modern players (many of my players are not long time players) will quickly get either bored or frustrated with trad mega dungeons?

is this just an empty worry?
 

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Can't speak for others but I love megadungeons. Ever since I was a kid I remember being fascinated with Undermountain. I was upset when I realized not ever facet of the place was laid out in excruciating detail. Pathfinder just released their first megadungeon the Emerald Spire and I'm really excited about it. Heck, even know, I'm DMing a megadungeon called The Castle of the Mad Archmage for my Pathfinder group. I love them!

For me, they provide a type of Diablo-like continuity. Constant monster killing, some RP, lots of loot, and a singular location for your players to really learn and master. The best parts is when they accidentally fall into a lower level before they're strong enough to, and you can watch some of the most innovative thinking imaginable to get back out.
 

Different players, different expectations.

I find it hard to manage a large dungeon unless it's well-designed. IMO, a well-designed dungeon is the opposite of Keep on the Shadowfell, which had a bunch of rooms crammed with monsters, each right next to the other. PCs really should be provoking some really large, unbeatable chained encounters.

I think a better-planned dungeon would spread the occupied areas around. To give a brief example, if the dungeon is divided between goblins, kobolds and orcs, who don't like each other, rooms in the "contested area" should be empty of living things (unless they're random dungeon monsters like cloakers, etc) and movement in those areas should be fairly free for invaders. Of course, those areas still have random encounters, as each faction attempts to claim those areas.

Each occupied area should be clearly marked off (good borders means better neighbors, less fighting, and of course it's a way to communicate with players). For instance, perhaps the border zone between goblins and kobolds is a rift or river that no one can (or wants to) live in. The goblin zone is marked by kobold skulls, and the kobold zone is marked by goblin skulls. (Young warriors frequently steal back trophies, prompting little skirmishes.) The occupied areas could be separated by considerable distances or dungeon levels, driving home what areas are what.

Each occupied room wouldn't have a full encounter. There's no need. PCs who use stealth and kill quickly might take out a bunch of relatively weak encounters in a row, whereas PCs who don't bother to learn information about the dungeon and loudly take on a room could find themselves fighting three or four weak encounters... which is the equivalent of one or two strong encounters. Do it wrong and you could take on all the kobolds at once. Even if they're not played as Tucker's kobolds there's a challenge. If they are played that way... there will be something other than goblin skulls decorating their borders the next day.

One of the big problems with a megadungeon is rest and bookkeeping. My favored dungeons are much smaller. I don't like the thought of a 30 encounter dungeon, as it's mathematically impossible for the PCs to do the whole thing in one day. In a megadungeon, PCs have to rest in the dungeon, and this could end in anything from Rope Trick abuse to PCs messing up and getting ganked in the night. Getting a good rest is challenging, and in a dungeon it should be, but sometimes that challenge can be entirely removed.

Pacing can be a problem. PCs cannot wipe out a megadungeon in a decent period of time, and often know little to nothing about the dungeon when they enter. If they're just there for treasure, they can take as long as they need, abusing the 15 minute day. On the other hand, if there's a plot, it's a challenge to get them to know it. Old Dragon Mountain was, I thought, a good dungeon at first. Much better than Keep on the Shadowfell. But there was no time limit. As far as I can tell, the PCs have as much time as they need to kill the dragon (or rather, they will probably think they have as much time as they need, with the similar impact on behavior).
 



All the rage not that long ago, I'm working on a mega dungeon to DM later this year. But, even though players seem excited, I have a niggling doubt that modern players (many of my players are not long time players) will quickly get either bored or frustrated with trad mega dungeons?

is this just an empty worry?

For what it's worth, I'd recommend this thread over at the Necromancer Games boards which has lots of advice and links to megadungeon discussions. Good luck!
 

The big thing a lot of megadungeons I've seen miss is NPCs/factions to interact with in a fun and engaging way.

Far too many are huge and interesting on a conceptual level, but have the PCs trudging through level after level without really talking to any NPCs, without interacting with anyone in any way but subterfuge and violence, and that gets so dull for a lot of players.
 

I love megadungeons, but also echo the concerns of many in this thread by saying that your players have to be into it. The last one I tried to run, I thought I had been clear about the nature of the campaign (Underdark exploration) but all my players did from day one was try to get back to the surface. When I handed off control to another DM after several months, the first thing that happened was the party found a single long spiral stairwell that went all the way back up to the surface.

The players found my individual adventures fun and engaging (at least, it seemed that way), but before long I had to engineer every goal so that it looked like it brought them closer to a way home. Pretty soon it felt like I was running an Underdark version of the D&D cartoon show without the kitsch.
 

If you're unsure about you players, just do it in the economic way:

- think of a concept for the dungeon
- name several levels
- map out the first two or three levels
- populate the first level (esepcially when using a preparation heavy system)
- start the game

That way you can just try to present them your monstrous child and see whether they like it. Look at the dungeon not like an adventure location which they visit and solve, but like a complete game world. You don't create a complete, thoroughly detailed world for a campaign, do you? Design your dungeon in the same vein: start out with idea, concept, and what you need for the first sessions.

As other have mentioned a good mega dungeon is more than maps & monsters. Whether you to persent your players with a complete ecosystem and network of enemies or want to react to your players' actions (and theories) depends on what drives them to the game in the first place.
 

On the subject of megadungeons, for those of you who make your own, how do you do your maps?

Do you use one sheet of graph paper per level and lots of levels? Many sheets taped together per level and few levels? Something in between?

Just curious- my own megadungeons (and I love them) tend to have many levels, whether they extend off a single page or not.
 

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