D&D 5E Are monks very samey?

[Celtavian]

Are monk at-will abilities less interesting than cantrips? Is punching (with a fist, sword, or nunchaku) less exciting than what a champion does?

Non-ki monk abilities very situational.

1. Deflect Missiles: Only useful when being attacked with ranged weapons.

2. Slow Fall: Only useful when falling.

3. Only at will ability is a Bonus Action second attack. It's like two-weapon fighting without requiring the fighting style. Starts at 1d4 damage plus Dex-modifier.

4. Fast movement: Allows you to get in trouble faster than the other PCs. You really don't want to engage in combat before them just like the old monk due to a lower AC and hit points.

Yep. Monk's at wills are much like a Champion Fighter absent the higher crit range, hit points, and AC with some situational abilities.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

I understand why they did certain things. If you give a monk the ability to Disengage without ki as a Bonus Action, they will rarely be touched in melee combat given their movement. And an ability like that would encroach upon the rogue some.

Monks will do it anyway as variant humans with Mobile.

Someone asked what role monks play. As far as I'm concerned, they're scouts and skirmishers, providing the party with intelligence about threats ahead. Ideally suited for breaking contact. They're also pretty good at trick plays like fighting inside a Stinking Cloud (due to poison immunity at level 10). Hammer, not anvil.

At least, shadow monks are like that. I don't really grok the other two...

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

4. Fast movement: Allows you to get in trouble faster than the other PCs. You really don't want to engage in combat before them just like the old monk due to a lower AC and hit points.

My experience with monks is different. Monks excel as solo combatants. Against melee attacks, your movement rate keeps you safe (combined with Mobile feat). Against ranged attacks, Deflect Missile and high AC protect you (especially if you arrange for everybody to have disadvantage in ranged attacks by engaging at long range). Against conventional attackers, the monk hardly needs the party--in fact, not having them around just prevents them from being liabilities.

Where the monk stumbles is her weak early saves. STR and DEX saves means she is quite vulnerable to paralytic poisons and stunning attacks (like chain worm humming, or illithid mind blasts). She has to keep the party close enough to back her up if something goes wrong on that front. Also, in case of traps.

Presumably, at high levels she'll be a little bit less fragile due to Diamond Soul.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Yep. Monk's at wills are much like a Champion Fighter absent the higher crit range, hit points, and AC with some situational abilities.

So it's an Eldritch Knight, with the two-weapon style? There are major differences with the situational abilities, but they seem very similar in the most important ways. It seems like the major difference is just that EKs have access to all of their spells at once, while Elementalists only get a few at a time. (And it takes longer for monk AC to kick in, but they eventually surpass the EK.)

 

[Celtavian]

My experience with monks is different. Monks excel as solo combatants. Against melee attacks, your movement rate keeps you safe (combined with Mobile feat). Against ranged attacks, Deflect Missile and high AC protect you (especially if you arrange for everybody to have disadvantage in ranged attacks by engaging at long range). Against conventional attackers, the monk hardly needs the party--in fact, not having them around just prevents them from being liabilities.

Where the monk stumbles is her weak early saves. STR and DEX saves means she is quite vulnerable to paralytic poisons and stunning attacks (like chain worm humming, or illithid mind blasts). She has to keep the party close enough to back her up if something goes wrong on that front. Also, in case of traps.

Presumably, at high levels she'll be a little bit less fragile due to Diamond Soul.

Now you're requiring a feat to make this work that not everyone may have access to and cannot be acquired until a minimum of level 4 unless you are a variant human. I am able to use feats and do plan to pick up Mobile. That should help quite a bit moving in and out of combat. I can even get that Wuxia feel I'm looking for since my DM doesn't care if I'm running in and out of combat or leaping or flipping. The monk's innate abilities are not what is providing the primary component to make this build work, a feat is. You could make a mobility fighter or rogue and move in and out of combat quite fine as well as long as you have a real tank. If you do this without one, you'll end up getting the casters dead.

 

[Minsc]

Monks will do it anyway as variant humans with Mobile.

Someone asked what role monks play. As far as I'm concerned, they're scouts and skirmishers, providing the party with intelligence about threats ahead. Ideally suited for breaking contact. They're also pretty good at trick plays like fighting inside a Stinking Cloud (due to poison immunity at level 10). Hammer, not anvil.

At least, shadow monks are like that. I don't really grok the other two...

What's that mean? I feel like I'm missing a reference.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

What's that mean? I feel like I'm missing a reference.

"Grok" means "deeply understand". It's a reference to Heinlein's book "Stranger In a Strange Land" about a telepathic Martian who groks things very quickly. I've actually never read the whole book but the term is part of pop culture now...
[MENTION=5834]Celtavian[/MENTION], you don't strictly need the Mobile feat. You could just rely on missile weapons. But Mobile lets you get your bonus action attack into play, and eventually Stunning Strike. Yes, a fighter can do it too but a monk does it somewhat better due to faster movement (fighter would need to cast Expeditious Retreat to keep up). Mobile is not a mandatory feat, but it's helpful, just as Sharpshooter is helpful for an archer.

And yes, I know not having a tank can get casters dead. That's why I said the rest of the party is a liability against conventional foes. Monks can handle hobgoblins/goblins/basilisks/etc. by themselves.

 

[Minsc]

Thank you, but I was referring to the part I put in bold text.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Thank you, but I was referring to the part I put in bold text.

Oh sorry, can't see bold on Tapatalk. Will check again later from a real computer.

 

[kerbarian]

Hammer and anvil is a tactic where you use a mobile, destructive force (hammer) to crush an enemy against your other tough, static force (anvil).

Another way to put it would be anvil=tank, hammer=dps.