Are Monster templates necessary?

[Venport]

Are Monster Templates necessary?

The recent open grave preview reminded me of an issue that I’ve had with monster templates in 4th Edition. Is there really a need for these? When I want a monster to have a new power or ability I give it to them. I don’t feel that it needs to meet an ability score requirement or Level requirement. It seems as if this is a left over from 3e, or am I missing something? Is it just for flavor? Or is there something in the mechanics of 4e that do require monster templates?

 

[Tale]

Are you reading the same thing I am? There's no "ability score requirement or Level requirement." These are just a for ease of use thing that they think can be used to provide an interest encounter of a particular flavor.

 

[Venport]

Here are the Prerequisites...

"Prerequisites: Living creature, level 11, Charisma 13"



If it's just for flavor i guess i understand. I was thinking from a stats point of view.

 

[Mengu]

Are Monster Templates necessary?

In my experience, absolutely not. They have made monster design, modification, and reskinning so easy that applying a template feels like more hassle than it's worth. I have yet to use an NPC template or any other template.

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Necessary? No, or at least not in my opinion.

Useful? Certainly.

As for the requirements, just like anything in else in the rules, the DM can waive them if they feel necessary. That said, if a template has a certain theme, waiving the requirement may in certain circumstances result in a combination that makes little sense.

Myself, I intend to use them in certain circumstances to make certain uber-NPCs more interesting. I've only just started DMing (my group is one session in and about 1/2 way to level 2), but I just worked out an encounter for lvl. 3 where I wanted a commander for a group of skeletons - I simply gave him the fighter template, chose powers that were more leadery, and renamed them to be more appropriate. I would have given him warlord instead, but fighter worked better for what I needed.

I have plans to use them later in my campaign for major plot villains - the skeleton is a one-shot and more of an experiment than anything else.

Dr. Ruminahui - shrink with a spear

 

[Tale]

Here are the Prerequisites...

"Prerequisites: Living creature, level 11, Charisma 13"



If it's just for flavor i guess i understand. I was thinking from a stats point of view.

Oh, wow, I didn't see that. I can understand the level requirement, since it's not balanced for less than that. But Charisma?

 

[jedrious]

You also have to remember, not every DM has been running games since 1975

I would much rather have the tools available for inexperienced DMs than to have them be fed to the lions, or worse yet, have no new DMs at all because having to learn how to create rules off the cuff without any guidance is too overwhelming for them

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Well, for certain templates it makes sense - a demogogue with Charisma 5 would be more than a bit odd.

Templates with attribute requirements are the exception, though, I would think.

Dr. Ruminahui - shrink with a spear

 

[Venport]

In my experience, absolutely not. They have made monster design, modification, and reskinning so easy that applying a template feels like more hassle than it's worth. I have yet to use an NPC template or any other template.

I agree.

The only thing i have used a template for so far is getting an idea for a cool monster power, taking that power and using it with somthing totaly different.

You also have to remember, not every DM has been running games since 1975

I would much rather have the tools available for inexperienced DMs than to have them be fed to the lions, or worse yet, have no new DMs at all because having to learn how to create rules off the cuff without any guidance is too overwhelming for them

You know that's a great point, I had not though about it in that way. I've not been a DM since 1975 by far, only a few years now. But a Very new DM or somone with little exerpiance as a DM may find these very helpful.

 

[OchreJelly]

adding a power or two to a monster isn't usually very overpowering, but once you start adding more hps, defenses, attack bonuses etc. it's nice to have balanced "recipes" to fallback on. I think that's the intention of the templates.

It actually helped me to look at them in a new light. I tend to look at them as "instant elite monster creators" rather than templates. In past games, if I want a tougher gnoll or kobold in the mix of an encounter, I'd add a template.

Lastly the class templates really do well at creating the feel of a classed NPC without the same level of work you'd have in 3E.