D&D 4E Are powers samey?

[Garthanos]

Again these are common maneuvers anyone can do with an attack action.

sorry not anyone can attack alongside grabbing that is a lie

 

[Imaro]

sorry not anyone can attack alongside grabbing that is a lie

Read what I posted and address my actual argument... you seem to be addressing what you want my argument to be. Is attacking and grabbing the actual ability? Or is the ability an extra attack action? Can I do other things with that extra attack? Is extra attack billed as a separate power across different classes?

 

[Garthanos]

4e anyone can grab period... hey look fighter who gets the maneuver can grab and strike.
5e anyone can grab and look if you have extra attack class feature you can grab and strike.

yep totally different because one is magic

 

[Garthanos]

Again these are common maneuvers anyone can do with an attack action.

Any one can grab with a standard action in 4e too. So what. Only some get to do it and attack too.

 

[Imaro]

Any one can grab with a standard action in 4e too. So what. Only some get to do it and attack too.

You're totally loosing me here... Extra Attack is samey with itself because it allows classes with the same power (Extra Attack) to do the same things with the same ability... that ability being...Extra Attack. Again you are comparing something to itself and claiming it's samey...

EDIT: If two classes in 4e had access to the same power I wouldn't call that samey because it's one power with various classes accessing it. Versus two distinct powers that are supposed to be different but play out, appear, feel, whatever very similar.

 

[Garthanos]

EDIT: If two classes in 4e had access to the same power I wouldn't call that samey because it's one power with various classes accessing it. Versus two distinct powers that are supposed to be different but play out, appear, feel, whatever very similar.

A bunch of 5e clases have the same ability because of extra attack it provides 4 at will equivalent abilities to several clases making those classes samey to me

 

[Imaro]

A bunch of 5e clases have the same ability because of extra attack it provides 4 still equivalent abilities to several clases making those classes samey to me

Good for you, and you're entitled to feel the way you feel about that.... I'm speaking to powers specifically in 4e you seem to want to let everyone know why you don't like 5e as a whole, which like I said is cool and all but maybe you should start a new thread about that since your points can sometimes be confusing in the context of this discussion.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Garthanos]

Good for you, and you're entitled to feel the way you feel about that.... I'm speaking to powers specifically in 4e you seem to want to let everyone know why you don't like 5e as a whole, which like I said is cool and all but maybe you should start a new thread about that since your points can sometimes be confusing in the context of this discussion.

Broadly samey classes who are very samey in themselves are a related side effect of dodging those sometimes subtly distinct abilities (they become less subtle in combination and context to me)

I also think there are huge numbers of these abilities that are not even slightly subtle about being distinct.

 

[Aldarc]

But that's not what is happening. These threads aren't about 4e fans sharing the things they love about 4e, unfortunately. They aren't about enthusiastically sharing the love of the game. Inevitably, each and every one is about telling people that ... they are wrong. That their expressed feeling are "cognitive dissonance." That no matter how much (or how little) they played 4e, they didn't play it enough to have a real opinion. And anyone who tries to engage is met with more detail, more esoterica, and so on.

In other words, every 4e thread I've seen in the last 4 years or so is like any Star Wars thread. Eventually, someone brings up Rey, and then you get that guy who starts talking about the EU, and some comic from the 1980s, and how blah blah blah Rey is a Mary Sue.

That's what these threads are like. Over and over again. Because it's impossible to have a nuanced discussion about 4e. I tried, once. I did the research. Looked into it. Really combed a bunch of sites to try and get a full perspective. And it got nowhere, because the conversations can't.

That said, I think it would be great to have threads ("+" threads, maybe?) where people who love 4e discuss and share the things about 4e that are great, that are wonderful, and expose people to it that way. There are a lot of intelligent people that have great points to make in a conversation about 4e, as opposed to the continual arguments that are had.

This is one-sided historiography that attempts to depict everyone who has a positive opinion about 4e along similar lines of a bunch of irrational, reactionary anti-feminists. You may not intend this, but comparing these people who like 4e to people complaining about Rey being a Mary Sue certainly not so subtly invites the comparison. So maybe your own cognitive bias is at work here in your recounting of what is or isn't happening because I don't think that this accurate regardless of the great lengths you went with your word count to appear convincing.