D&D 4E Are powers samey?

[doctorbadwolf]

anyway, @lowkey13 I think we have fully explored out points of view on this one, and I gotta go work a closing shift that I'd really rather not do in a town where 6 stores of the same kind as mine have been robbed at gun-point in the last two weeks with no arrests made so far, so I'm gonna go ahead and call it a day on this one, if you don't mind.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Thanks for letting me know how I can waste my time. Appreciate it.

No part of my post told you any such thing.

You know the difference between suggestions and commands, right?

Or are you being intentionally hyperbolic in order to make your statement more dramatic?

 

[Oofta]

Yeah, whether something is objective or subjective is a pretty common part of discussions, both those Im in and those I observe.

In a normal conversation, subjective means based on feelings and biases, not on facts or measurable factors. Liking something is subjective, whether it's well made isn't.

Except that it is. In it's day a 1930s Cadillac was very well made. By today's standards it would be a piece of crap. It's highly likely that in 20 years (if not sooner) we'll have cars that need no maintenance or routine maintenance for 100,000 miles. Today's cars will look like like crap in comparison.

Well, that and something as subjective as whether powers have too much sameyness is completely subjective.

 

[Oofta]

No part of my post told you any such thing.

You know the difference between suggestions and commands, right?

Or are you being intentionally hyperbolic in order to make your statement more dramatic?

How is

Then don't jump into discussions that you find meaningless. Seems pretty simple, as a solution to your apparent annoyance with how meaningless the discussion supposedly is.

Not telling me what to do? Oh sorry you're merely suggesting not telling. I guess which one it is in the eye of the beholder and rather subjective.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Manbearcat]

I have the following thoughts reading this exchange.

1) Is this conversation between lowkey and DBW actually eerily similar (objective) or does it just feel eerily similar (subjectively)?

2) Across a population of people, the impact of “With respect” as a formulation of words attempting to politely segue into disagreement is clearly subjectively interpreted because it can yield extreme rage or a complete non-event! However, I wonder if it’s an objective quality within a singular person in that there is a specific trigger or subset of triggers (an algorithm that may also include what kind of day the recipient is having) that causes anger vs “meh?”

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Whether a car is well made is literally objective. I'm sorry. With much respect, you are wrong. A car is objectively well or poorly made. There are dozens of objective measures, especially when you get into the requirements and goals of a category of car, like luxury sedan, or off-road vehicle, etc.
The quality of a car can be objectively measured. Whether one likes a car has nothing to do with it.
If samey has any rational definition, it's gotta have something to do with actual similarity. Actual similarity can be measured and observed objectively.

Whether a car is well made or not, I would argue, is only partially objective. Once a list of criteria and ways of measuring them have been chosen, I agree that determining the value of the car is quite objective. Unfortunately compiling the list of criteria and the method by which data will collected is quite subjective.

I think you guys are arguing more about the list of criteria by which the quality of an RPG should be measured than whether or not 4e satisfies those criteria.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Whether a car is well made or not, I would argue, is only partially objective. Once a list of criteria and ways of measuring them have been chosen, I agree that determining the value of the car is quite objective. Unfortunately compiling the list of criteria and the method by which data will collected is quite subjective.

I think you guys are arguing more about the list of criteria by which the quality of an RPG should be measured than whether or not 4e satisfies those criteria.

I’d say it’s more that depending on how you rate different criteria, how well made the car is can be argued endlessly, but to call a pretty advanced car that performs well on nearly every industry standard test “bad” is, let’s change terminology, and say, kinda silly. I’d say that Lexus makes a car that is a better buy, as does the also overpriced Mercedes-Benz, and that the only thing holding BMW back from being the top of the list is the price of replacement parts and repairs, and those are all arguable bits of comparative “which well made car is the most well made” nuance.

likewise, 4e either is or isn’t samey, depending on the definition of the term. (Or, the term is meaningless and has no useful definition) We can argue about how samey it is, but I’d find that pretty boring.

The why and how of folks experiencing it as samey vs not is interesting, to me, though

 

[Manbearcat]

Well, any assertion of the sameyness of the conversations is necessarily subjective ... FALSE DICHOTOMY!



This is why it always should be, "With all due respect." Always give the respect that is due!

Subtext is the best type of text.

Silliness aside, what I wrote above actually contains some explanatory power. I think what the situation is is that DBW and myself (and others like us) are of a neurological disposition (my guess is it’s a quirk of hardware) that we want to unlock the algorithm for individual folks. And we’re very confident that folks do have an algorithm. Not only that, but we think that, while the algorithm may not be precisely the same between all members of a population (in this case those that feel “sameyness” with respect to TTRPGs), there is some significant overlap.

It’s interesting to us to try to have conversations to unlock these algorithms because it can help (a) inform design and (b) system selection curation/advice in gaming.