D&D 4E Are powers samey?

[Aldarc]

The vast majority of players aren't analyzing powers this deeply. In practical play unless there is an AoO a shift 1 and move 1 are identical. the fact that you can't see that shows a clear bias and is probably why you don't see them as samey but someone else could.

I don't play Magic the Gathering. I could probably look at dozens of cards and get the impression that they are the "samey". They have different icons and talk about such things as graveyards, mana points, and the like while showing me the same five repeating colors. But if I were to ask people with more than a passing similarity of the game, I suspect that they would tell me how absolutely wrong that I was about how the various cards worked. Part of that is that these powers do not exist in isolation with each other, but also rely on the context of actual gameplay and interlocking mechanisms at play.

 

[Oofta]

Yes, tons of people have impressions and beliefs about all kinds of things, impressions and beliefs that are not based on factual truth. The impression of 4e powers being samey is one these, as the impression is based on the uniform presentation of powers and the lack of knowledge of what 4e powers actually encompass.

You do know people are entitled to their own opinions, right? That one person's definition of "samey" may not be the same as yours?

I played 4E a lot. DMed and played to 30th level along with running/helping to run a couple of game days for LFR in a major metro area. Yet I ultimately felt that they were samey in the sense of that the verbiage of the powers was overly complex while the execution of powers and the decision points were overly simplified. Eventually outside of a handful of powers there was nothing iconic or unique about any of them.

Which may not meet your definition and probably wasn't your impression. But it was mine, and it was shared by the majority of people I played with. This isn't an opinion I formed out of ignorance.

 

[Eric V]

Yes, tons of people have impressions and beliefs about all kinds of things, impressions and beliefs that are not based on factual truth. The impression of 4e powers being samey is one these, as the impression is based on the uniform presentation of powers and the lack of knowledge of what 4e powers actually encompass.

Too true. Then, some decent cognitive dissonance kicks in, preventing the relevant facts from making a dent in the prevailing worldview. Oh well. People miss out on all kinds of stuff.

 

[Imaro]

Too true. Then, some decent cognitive dissonance kicks in, preventing the relevant facts from making a dent in the prevailing worldview. Oh well. People miss out on all kinds of stuff.

That's the thing most if not all of us didnt miss out on 4e...we played it, ran it or both and didnt enjoy it.

 

[Oofta]

Too true. Then, some decent cognitive dissonance kicks in, preventing the relevant facts from making a dent in the prevailing worldview. Oh well. People miss out on all kinds of stuff.

Like how other people can have legitimate opinions that differ from theirs? That it has nothing to do with ignorance and that everyone's experiences and perspectives are unique?

Yep, agreed 100%.

 

[Garthanos]

and the decision points were overly simplified.

compared to 5e I have no words.

 

[Oofta]

compared to 5e I have no words.

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion.

I completely disagree with you of course, but I'm not going to tell you that you're basing your opinion on ignorance.

 

[Teemu]

You do know people are entitled to their own opinions, right? That one person's definition of "samey" may not be the same as yours?

I played 4E a lot. DMed and played to 30th level along with running/helping to run a couple of game days for LFR in a major metro area. Yet I ultimately felt that they were samey in the sense of that the verbiage of the powers was overly complex while the execution of powers and the decision points were overly simplified. Eventually outside of a handful of powers there was nothing iconic or unique about any of them.

Which may not meet your definition and probably wasn't your impression. But it was mine, and it was shared by the majority of people I played with. This isn't an opinion I formed out of ignorance.

Are you talking about powers, or both powers and rituals? Do you find 5e less samey?

 

[Oofta]

Are you talking about powers, or both powers and rituals? Do you find 5e less samey?

I explained my logic and reasoning back in post #14.

As far as 5E, yes I find that in play a fighter feels significantly different than a wizard who feels different than a barbarian who feels different than a warlock and so on and so forth.

Different structure, different implementation, different decision points.

 

[Garthanos]

Fair enough. You're entitled to your opinion.

I completely disagree with you of course, but I'm not going to tell you that you're basing your opinion on ignorance.

I might be doing that though. I think you are very much in your place to decide to explain better to someone like many in that other thread who say 5e is the simplest edition of the game (or explicitly explain to the ones who somehow think having a day as your window is not really different than having 3 weeks in real game terms). Or whatever.